Freeman of the land

[Yozhik]

Also, before a discussion about property ownership is taken as "fact", I strongly suggest it is both relevant and important to search, read and comprehend the difference and significance of "fee simple title" and "allodial title" ... and how they might apply to your rose tinted view of the current system.

[andyofborg]

Huh?

 

The "money" does not exist.

It is a fiction that is created out of NOTHING.

 

You deal in promissory notes ... a promise to pay when something of value is available. Debt, pushed into the future.

 

ok, so if i stop dealing in promissory notes, then what do i deal in?

 

if we stop using promissory notes then what do we use?

 

you seem to be wanting to abandon our current currency but don't seem to have suggested what we use in its place.

[Yozhik]

ok, so if i stop dealing in promissory notes, then what do i deal in?

 

if we stop using promissory notes then what do we use?

 

you seem to be wanting to abandon our current currency but don't seem to have suggested what we use in its place.

 

I never suggested abandoning it at all.

What I said was, we need to comprehend what it is that we deal in.

Once we understand the system, then we can use the system, as is lawfully allowed.

 

Once we understand and accept that we deal in a system of sovereign bankruptcy, promissory notes and debt, then the possibilities for remedy and "payment" are opened up to us all, rather than a controlling few.

 

If you can't beat the system, then understand it and utilise it.

[andyofborg]

You still have to borrow money to pay the principal, you/WE never get out of borrowing so you are never free of the debts,

 

you don't have to borrow money to pay the principal and over the long term such a course is probably the road to ruin.

 

my current debt is my mortgage and a few quid on my credit card. I'll be paying off the credit card when the next bill comes and the mortgage in about 10 years, maybe sooner with a bit of luck and once i've done that i will be free of debt!

 

i may take on more debt, in fact I probably will, but over time i will pay it off and then I will be debt free.

 

the national debt is the debt of the people in the uks company thats you with your national insurance number (its in the name!!!!) you are the insurance to the company (uk goverment). Yoy pay the debt and your kids pay the debt forever like a slave to a debt that you did not give your consent too.

 

your national insurance number is the identifier by which payments you make to the government are recorded for the purpose of calculating future benefits (pension, jsa etc) to which you may be eligible.

 

your NI number has got nothing to do with the national debt, though of course some of your contributions may go to service that debt.

 

http://links.veronicachapman.com/LongArmOfTheLaw.htm

There is a sleight-of-mind played to use the word 'person' in a special, legal, context. Now, you may have been led to believe that you are a person and, in common parlance, of course you are - but legally speaking 'a person' is not what you think it is. Legally 'a person' is considered to be a 'single-individual CORPORATION'. To whom Corporation (i.e. Admiralty) Law can be applied. (Check back, that's 'the law-of-the-sea').

 

i am quite aware that the legal definition of a person, can in some instances, include certain organisations, but it does not apply to every law and in every situation. For example, the Companies Act does not apply to me as an individual, whereas it does apply to the company for which I work and those of which I am a shareholder.

 

Equally, I can be convicted of murder, but a corporation cannot.

 

The law-of-the-sea applies to SHIPs. That's where ownerSHIP, citizenSHIP, LordSHIP, LadySHIP, etc. comes from. (Hey! courtSHIP, leading to a court-enforceable contract - marriage - between two people?) And, once a ship has docked, it can be pinned down (It's hard to pin down a ship while it is sailing)...............................

 

thats rubbish and i really do hope that you know it.

 

It is no accident that the word 'birth' (as in Birth Certificate) and 'berth' (a place where SHIPs are moored) is pronounced in exactly the same way. You were awarded a Berth Certificate when born. However, in reality, you weren't 'birthed' ... you were born.

 

it seems your grasp of English grammar is a poor as your grasp of law.

"Born" and "birth" are just different forms of the verb and relate to the context in which they are used.

[andyofborg]

Sorry, but this is really a head in hands moment for me. Where did I say we should not use credit in society?

 

Credit is not the problem. Even fractional reserve banking is not the problem as so many reformists claim. The problem is that the creation of credit is an exclusive PRIVILEGE in the realm of high finance.

 

"Without credit the economy would stagnate" - absolutely correct, so if credit is so important to modern society, then why are we paying a handful of banking cartels for this universal right?

 

Like I said, credit is not the same as other products/services. It is the lifeblood of the economy, and parasites currently control the flow of that blood.

 

creating credit is not an exclusive privilege, if you sell goods or offer services then you have the option of creating credit for your customers. all you have to do is allow them to pay on terms orther than cash on delivery.

[Yozhik]

There are those who keep banging the drum, with their blindfolds securely fastened ... and then there are those who are willing to lift it up occasionally to see what lies illuminated in the sunlight.

 

I don't have all the answers ... never will ... but I know one thing; I like seeing the sunlight and all that it brings to view.

[andyofborg]

Once we understand and accept that we deal in a system of sovereign bankruptcy, promissory notes and debt, then the possibilities for remedy and "payment" are opened up to us all, rather than a controlling few.

 

 

what possibilities?

[epiphany]

creating credit is not an exclusive privilege, if you sell goods or offer services then you have the option of creating credit for your customers. all you have to do is allow them to pay on terms orther than cash on delivery.

 

Sounds like you're referring to a type of store credit. If stores do allow you to borrow money on a store credit card of some sort, look at who administers and authorises that credit behind the scenes - the same, chartered financial institutions. That is because stores are not licenced to create new currency. They must themselves borrow the money from a bank (preferably at a lower rate of interest) OR take the loan out of their own, pre-existing cashflow - money that has already been created by banks.

 

To fully understand the credit system you need to first go right back to the beginning of the chain of production and acknowledge that every pound/dollar/form of legal tender in existence is a form of credit itself - let's call that "primary credit", since all other credit is created from within that legal framework.

[Spraykiller]

There is no dishonour in taking what is needed for life.

 

Because life itself, the very act of being alive, gives you no other practical choice.

 

And we all actually know this, deep down.

 

That's why so many people can see "Freemanship" as "right", even before they have a clue how it works. In fact it takes a seriously ingrained mind not to understand what I'm about to say. There is only one species on this planet that thinks 'giving' is something special, and that's Homo Sapiens.

 

But they are completely wrong. Because they have never thought about it.

 

When we arrive here, what's the first thing we do? Most people say "Scream!". No way! We take a breath, before we can scream. In point of fact, from birth to death, we take everything.

 

We take the air we breathe. We take the rain that falls from the sky. We take the light that comes from the Sun. We take the heat that comes from the Sun. We take minerals out of the ground. We take energy from natural resources, the flow of water, the wind, etc. We take animals that have taken food for themselves. We take plants that have fed themselves on water and minerals taken from the ground and light and heat taken from the Sun.

 

We take ... because there is no other way. (Animals know this by instinct. Plants just 'do it')

 

Organic Life = Take. Because there is no other way. (Think about it)

 

There is no dishonour in taking. Because there is no other way.

 

What do we consider giving back? Does the sky want the rain back? Does the Sun want the light and heat back? Does the ground want the minerals back?

 

No ... and a jolly good job too!

 

Because what do we give then? What can we give? Waste. Sewage. Pollution.

 

Can you think of anything else?

 

Dishonour comes with taking land and/or resources, and expecting others to 'pay for the privilege of access to them'. That's where dishonour comes from.

 

Barging one's way to the front of the Takers. Elbowing out (by Statute?) anyone who has the audacity so say: "Hold on a minute! What

gives you the right to elbow your way to the front of the queue?"

 

Yes ... as ever ... you just need to think about it.

 

Scroungers? Actually they have more morality than most. They actually have the decency to ask for permission, and generally to say Thanks."Got a fag, mate?" ... "Yes ... OK ... have one" ... "Thanks, mate!"

 

The dishonour of grabbing as much as one can has been around since the dawn of Cro-Magnon Man. And we are living under the vestiges of that. Breaking out of that insidious mould is what Freemanship is all about.

 

And, deep down, everyone knows that. Most just don't know how to express or communicate it in words.

 

We are not "tax dodgers" and "demand dodgers". Those who attempt impose "taxes" and "demands" based on what they took freely in the first place are those who are in dishonour. Honour comes from standing up to them.

 

 

 

Anyone Here ready to standup and draw a line in the sand ?

 

someone name a pub? and day? and a time?

The Promised Land always lies on the other side of a wilderness

[Spraykiller]

http://library.georgegordon.com/audio

listen and learn

 

 

 

 

 

A small step for mankind, but a giant step for us.LOL