Freeman of the land

[Yozhik]

I disagree with education "dumbing kids down". I would consider myself as a product of contemporary education, being only 22 and still attending university. I can tell you that I don't believe everything politicians - in fact I question the moajority of it. I don't think I'm alone either.

 

Do you think that home educated children have the same social skills as school educated children? Unless you're home educating a class room of children, won't you be neglecting the right a child has to socialise and learn from their peers?

 

Of course social skills are equally, if not more important, than book learning.

Home schooling does not mean locking the door and not allowing any social interaction with their peers.

It simply means taking responsibility for the learning process, rather than handing it over to some Common Purpose programmed school stormtrooper.

[Hallamton]

Why?

Why do I have to learn a specific language to fully comprehend the rules and regulations, which I supposedly am governed by?

 

Why do the statutes have to be written in a language that very few can truly comprehend?

If it is English law, then should it not be written in English?

 

Legalese is most definitely NOT English.

It looks like English; even sounds like English ... but it is not English ... not by the wildest stretch of the imagination.

 

So why are the statutes for English speakers written in legalese, which only those fully conversant in that language have any hope of fully consenting to?

It's not a logical situation.

 

We're not just talking about those who want to be liberated ... and that comment implies that unless you desire to be liberated, you're not.

Which is actually closer to the truth than you probably intended.

99.9% of the people affected by the statutes, probably don't even comprehend them

That's not by accident; that is by design.

 

Why would you have to learn a specific language? The same reason you'd have to learn anything in order to understand it. My own opinion is that if you want something, you have to get it yourself and not be spoon fed. I think anyone who isn't looking to be liberated probably doesn't want to be. If you're not happy with something it's upto you to change that.

[Hallamton]

Of course social skills are equally, if not more important, than book learning.

Home schooling does not mean locking the door and not allowing any social interaction with their peers.

It simply means taking responsibility for the learning process, rather than handing it over to some Common Purpose programmed school stormtrooper.

 

But social interaction at a young age comes from school. How are you supposed to teach a child social interaction? It's a natural process.

[Yozhik]

But social interaction at a young age comes from school. How are you supposed to teach a child social interaction? It's a natural process.

 

You think school is the only place children can interact?

I take it you don't have any.

 

Its also a matter of balance.

 

The negatives of a Common Purpose structured and administered environment are far outweighed by the positive aspects of taking responsibility for the welfare and balanced state of your offspring's upbringing.

[Darren Polla]

But it's easy enough to find different statues. All them are written (even if it is a perculier way of writing them) in the same way, so surely once you learn the lingo they're easier to comprehend? If that's the case then isn't it upto the person who wants to be liberated to learn the lingo instead of placing blame with the powers that be?

 

Why would they want to hide it from us by using another language? It's not like it's Latin or Greek or French. It looks like English, it reads like English but the words mean totally different things than what they mean in common English. This is an obvious trap.

 

There is no just cause for obsfucation. It is for deceptions purposes only!

 

See you on the morrow. Goodnight folks.

 

Be happy, have fun, stay free.

 

Darren:)

[Yozhik]

Why would you have to learn a specific language? The same reason you'd have to learn anything in order to understand it. My own opinion is that if you want something, you have to get it yourself and not be spoon fed. I think anyone who isn't looking to be liberated probably doesn't want to be. If you're not happy with something it's upto you to change that.

 

Sorry ... I can't agree.

 

We're talking about social contracts.

Would you sign a contract you did not read or did not comprehend?

Statutes are contracts ... and we are expected to fully comprehend them and abide by them.

 

.. and again, I come back to the point you have not addressed.

 

If the statutes, Acts and Bills are the rules of this unnamed society, then why are they in a language very few of the members can fully comprehend?

 

Obviously these rules were not designed to be read and comprehended by it's members.

Why is that?

 

... and why should we accept being in a non-liberated state as the default setting?

[Hallamton]

You think school is the only place children can interact?

I take it you don't have any.

 

Its also a matter of balance.

 

The negatives of a Common Purpose structured and administered environment are far outweighed by the positive aspects of taking responsibility for the welfare and balanced state of your offspring's upbringing.

 

I think that until you're of a certain age, the majority of your social interactions are through education as it's the most common place you will spend time with your peers.

 

Yes, schools are structured but I think you're wrong about teachers being as structured as they are. They obviously have to follow some guidelines but they all have their own ways of doing it. It's one of the reasons why people are different - they are all being taught in different ways.

 

A couple of questions for you -

 

Do you think children would lose some of their independence by not going to school? As in they would lose their right to choose whether or not they complete homework on the deadline or rebel against their teacher because the parent has taken over as the dominant role in education.

 

and

 

If you were to homeschool your child, would it be your choice or theirs?

[Hallamton]

Why would they want to hide it from us by using another language? It's not like it's Latin or Greek or French. It looks like English, it reads like English but the words mean totally different things than what they mean in common English. This is an obvious trap.

 

There is no just cause for obsfucation. It is for deceptions purposes only!

 

See you on the morrow. Goodnight folks.

 

Be happy, have fun, stay free.

 

Darren:)

 

Goodnight mate, good discussion once again

[Hallamton]

Sorry ... I can't agree.

 

We're talking about social contracts.

Would you sign a contract you did not read or did not comprehend?

Statutes are contracts ... and we are expected to fully comprehend them and abide by them.

 

.. and again, I come back to the point you have not addressed.

 

If the statutes, Acts and Bills are the rules of this unnamed society, then why are they in a language very few of the members can fully comprehend?

 

Obviously these rules were not designed to be read and comprehended by it's members.

Why is that?

 

... and why should we accept being in a non-liberated state as the default setting?

 

 

But my point is that although they might be hard to comprehend, noone is stopping you from learning how to comprehend them. It's wrong for a person to put the blame onto someone else if they can't comprehend something even if the information to learn is there. It's a personal shortcoming.

 

The "contract" is something that you can opt out of whenever you want, it's not as if it's a mobile phone contract where you're tied into it for a period of time. Even this forum has a sort of "contract" whereby it gives members rules to abide by. I would bet that 99.9% of forum members haven't read them before they start posting. If they were to do something wrong it wouldn't be the forums fault, would it?

[Yozhik]

I think that until you're of a certain age, the majority of your social interactions are through education as it's the most common place you will spend time with your peers.

 

Yes, schools are structured but I think you're wrong about teachers being as structured as they are. They obviously have to follow some guidelines but they all have their own ways of doing it. It's one of the reasons why people are different - they are all being taught in different ways.

 

My distrust of schools is not directed at the teachers.

It's the administrators and leaders.

Are you aware of Common Purpose?

 

May I respectfully suggest you do some research into it and then you might see where I'm coming from on this one.

 

 

A couple of questions for you -

 

Do you think children would lose some of their independence by not going to school? As in they would lose their right to choose whether or not they complete homework on the deadline or rebel against their teacher because the parent has taken over as the dominant role in education.

 

and

 

If you were to homeschool your child, would it be your choice or theirs?

 

Lose their independence?

Absolutely not!

Quite the opposite.

Schools these days, by their structure, are breeding pens for putting children into pigeon-holes and shaping them to fit a bell curve.

There is more chance of individuality, creativity and independence being nurtured when not subjected to efforts to "normalise" a young mind.

 

When were children ever given the right to choose whether to do homework?

Why would the child be given the choice of home schooling or not? Are children given the choice of whether to go to school or not?

 

As mothers and fathers, there are times when we have to exercise our undemocratic powers of being the mother and father and deciding what is best for our offspring. Would you place the responsibility of education choices in the hands of your 5 or 6 year old son or daughter?

 

I'm sure your question was well intended, but in reality, it just doesn't work like that.

 

This is about taking responsibility and rejecting some of the benefits and privileges offered to us, when those benefits and privileges are not the best option.