The new Islam megathread part 3

[Plain Talker]

Islam does not compel converts (to Islam) because the Koran calls for all those who leave Islam to be executed. This is partially who so many stay 'technically' Muslim for fear of reprisals to either them or their family’s.

 

This is an interesting article: http://www.islam-watch.org/ExMuslims/Why-I-want-to-leave-Islam.htm

 

It lists 28 reasons why the poster wanted to leave Islam. Some seem very personal and would be impossible to validate but others have links to chapters within Islamic religious books and teachings.

 

thing is, serapis, pretty much all those 28 reasons quoted are cobblers, and can be refuted without much difficulty. (I must say, though, I think that for me to repeat some of the points is beyond the pale)

 

As for some of the comments accompanying those errors, I am shocked and disgusted.

 

All I can say about the OP of that quoted comment, has big issues with Islam, and has put forward a very wrong and skewed version of Islam, (Folk Islam, if you will, not Quranical Islam)

[Berberis]

Are you sure? The tapestry of history paints a different picture to this, for example the forced conversions of Zoroastrians in Iran after the Arab conquest.

 

Not to mention the Samaritans forced conversion or the Mandaeans' and Assyrian Christians of Iraq or the Egyptian Coptic Christians and the Christians of Pakistan. All document and forced/coerced into conversion to Islam.

[Berberis]

No, where did you get that anywhere from I posted?

 

Do you have some qualification for this, or is it pure conjecture?

 

Give me evidence to disprove what I said. I'm more than happy to listen to your argument and if I'm wrong I will hold my hands up and accept that.

 

But even though Christian sectarian violence is well documented, the sheer numbers of deaths from Muslim sectarian violence in modern history shows that at present Islam is more divided than Christianity.

 

If there is another method of gauging this, do tell as this is the only way I can see to make this judgment.

[plekhanov]

sorry, plek, but the only thing even remotely tu quoque in my comments was saying that Islam does not compel converts, but that the inquisition did.

Really so the Koran itself doesn't tell how your prophet Mohammed himself gave conquered pagans the choice to covert or die?

 

9.5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

As you know very well your religion only allows for very limited tolerance of Jews and Christians, there is no toleration for anyone else.

 

Why are you ignoring all the other examples of compulsion under Islam that I gave? Once again what is the punishment for apostasy under Islam?

 

How can you argue that a religion which punishes those who leave as adults the religion they were told they belonged to as children doesn't compel people?

[Plain Talker]

Not to mention the Samaritans forced conversion or the Mandaeans' and Assyrian Christians of Iraq or the Egyptian Coptic Christians and the Christians of Pakistan. All document and forced/coerced into conversion to Islam.

 

Samaritans? I thought they were Jewish? (see the bible stories about the Samaritan woman, and the good Samaritan, and the arguments between the Jerusalem centred Jews, and the Samaria-centred Jews, and their dispute over who had the "True Temple")

[Dhimmi]

Widespread reports doesn't prove widespread practice; besides which, most of the stuff about beheadings, ill-treatment of women and so on, is cultural, and existed long before Islam and would still exist if Islam were wiped out.

 

Britain is a nominally Christian country, with widespread reports of youth crime, murders, vandalism, gang fights, football hooliganism ... ample proof, by your argument, that Christianity is an evil religion that should be exterminated.

Christianity is an evil religion - all religions are evil! Yes, they are all bad.

[Berberis]

thing is, serapis, pretty much all those 28 reasons quoted are cobblers, and can be refuted without much difficulty. (I must say, though, I think that for me to repeat some of the points is beyond the pale)

 

As for some of the comments accompanying those errors, I am shocked and disgusted.

 

All I can say about the OP of that quoted comment, has big issues with Islam, and has put forward a very wrong and skewed version of Islam, (Folk Islam, if you will, not Quranical Islam)

 

Those that stick out to me are as follows. Could you educate me (honestly) in why they are cobblers.

 

- That my sister's and mother's testimony automatically means one half a man's testimony just because they are women! (sura 2:11)

 

- That my founder married a 6 year old girl

 

- That my own holy book condones war against the non-muslim

 

Also, Plaintalker, do you believe that women are equal to men in Islam? Because this is my biggest problem with Islam.

[f0rd]

Give me evidence to disprove what I said. I'm more than happy to listen to your argument and if I'm wrong I will hold my hands up and accept that.[/Quote]

Wait, you made the claim you should be able to back it up other than conjuring up an imaginary yard stick.

 

But even though Christian sectarian violence is well documented, the sheer numbers of deaths from Muslim sectarian violence in modern history shows that at present Islam is more divided than Christianity.[/Quote]

And that demonstrates your claim "Christians may well be divided, but nowhere near as divided as some of the Muslim sects." how?

 

For one correlation does not imply causation, the only factor you are using here to measure this division is a death toll.

 

If there is another method of gauging this, do tell as this is the only way I can see to make this judgment.

Theological division, practical division in how the practice, this death toll isn't a measure of difference, it is result thereof.

[Berberis]

Samaritans? I thought they were Jewish? (see the bible stories about the Samaritan woman, and the good Samaritan, and the arguments between the Jerusalem centred Jews, and the Samaria-centred Jews, and their dispute over who had the "True Temple")

 

I never said they were of any religion. I quoted the others as Christians.

 

Personally I don’t see the difference anyway, Christians are just modern Jews who believe Jebus was the messiah, that’s about the face of it really.

[Bassman62]

thing is, serapis, pretty much all those 28 reasons quoted are cobblers, and can be refuted without much difficulty. (I must say, though, I think that for me to repeat some of the points is beyond the pale)

 

As for some of the comments accompanying those errors, I am shocked and disgusted.

 

All I can say about the OP of that quoted comment, has big issues with Islam, and has put forward a very wrong and skewed version of Islam, (Folk Islam, if you will, not Quranical Islam)

Well in a few years when I get ready to croak it I'm going to convert to Islam and become a suicide bomber; then it'll be bring on my 70+ virgins.

One thing though; they will be women virgins won't they and not camels, sheep, goats or worse still men.:gag::gag: