The new Islam megathread part 3

[Bassman62]

Oh, I support their democratic right to exist; but I oppose their obvious agenda of race-hate, something you appear to be quite comfortable with.

You see there you go again implying that I've said something that I haven't.

If you continue with this I will adopt with you the same response that I make to Tab1 which is "There you go again".

[Halibut]

I don't need to avoid anything Halibut especially you, you have nothing sensible to offer so you get laughed at, and I think you make more personal attacks than anyone on the forum, but don't like it when it's reversed now crawl back under your stone.

 

You've consistently avoided any attempt to explain whether you believe that Griffin's remark

 

"Without the White race nothing matters [other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create "Black Britons", while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land."

 

is racist or not; I bet you daren't give me a straight answer this time either.......

[retep]

You've consistently avoided any attempt to explain whether you believe that Griffin's remark

 

"Without the White race nothing matters [other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create "Black Britons", while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land."

 

is racist or not; I bet you daren't give me a straight answer this time either.......

 

Perhaps you could show where you've asked me the question.

[Thebanginman]

You've consistently avoided any attempt to explain whether you believe that Griffin's remark

 

"Without the White race nothing matters [other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create "Black Britons", while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land."

 

is racist or not; I bet you daren't give me a straight answer this time either.......

You forgot the gay bit this time:D

By the way this thread is about Islam...the BNP thread is over there somewhere>>>

[f0rd]

Hadith has a guiding role for people who choose to believe it.[/Quote]

Guiding, come on that is a bit of an understatement The koran makes no sense without the hadith. And if you want to maintain what you say is true then can you name one Koran only group that has not been marginalized by Muslims.

 

It does not however play a legal role in Muslim's lives, that was done by the state,[/QUote]

 

...uh what?

 

"Rubbish, yet another made up lie from Plek, Islam has no apostasy law, but the Caliphate did and you clever cookie fail to see the difference. The Caliphate doesn't exist anymore and you clever cookie hasn't noticed that little fact, so no such law applies from Islam."

 

This is what I was replying to, it does have the law as documented in the Hadith, now if you are going to say the hadith have a guidance roll which people can choose to follow go right ahead, but don't try and say "no such law applies from Islam" when it evidently does and try pass on the buck.

 

and if you know enough as you claim[/Quote]

Where did I claim this, could you please quote me where I said this.

 

then that little fact you should have been aware of.[/Quote]

lulz, well want to show where I claimed above first....

 

Again like Plek you are confusing personal Law with Sharia’ law of the sate of Islam which went out of existence more than a few weeks ago.[/Quote]

No, pretty sure I am not.

 

Thus the example of Salaa't, you really haven't a clue.

 

So you not going to demonstrate it using the Koran only?

 

So sure it does is the convincing argument is it? well then, to counter that I'll put forward one just as convincing[/Quote]

This should be fun.

 

I'm sure it doesn't. The law on treason is the nearest you can compare the death sentence for apostasy to in Islamic law of the time. Was it 1998 that death penalty for treason was removed from the statute books here in Britain?

Yep, and you know what it should have kept, I actually agree with the killing of traitors in some circumstances, as such where their actions endanger and could lead to the death of their "fellow" comrades and possibly civilians.

 

But comparing it to deciding to not follow a particular belief or God... yeah very comparable...

[f0rd]

And who created that - blurt it wasnt Alton Towers before you get smart:hihi:

 

Who? Why did you begin with this presupposition

[Commoner]

Actually tab1, you remind me of the BNP against the Jews. Your version of racialism.

 

I remember as a child being kicked out of Sunday school (for protestants) I must have been all of eight years of age at the time but the tutor or inflicter was professing the story of Noah and the Ark. I made the fatal mistake being of a mischievous mind and asking the obvious question as to how Noah was able to round up two of each animals from all over the world into his boat, considering that the likes of Lions wouldn't be too keen on the idea. My inflicter kicked me out for answering back when he had no answer, its a bit like your Hadiths.

 

You follow blindly without question, you even deny the existence of dinosaurs as that wouldn't fit into your Hadiths, you may as well be in Wako for all your cultist beliefs.

 

You need to set yourself free tab1 and be a free thinker away from the cult that envelops you and controls your day to day life, you need to breathe fresh air and get a different perspective if you are to be truly free amongst the rest of the free society that you live alongside. You need to respect us as well.

[plekhanov]

Liar, No it's not as clear as you make it out to be, it doesn't order Muslims to commit murder of every non Muslim. Out of context statements don't make sense and you should know that, of course you do know that but being disingenuous aren't you?

And you dare accuse others of lying I clearly wasn't arguing on the strength of that single verse orders 'Muslims to commit murder of every non Muslim'. Will you please respond to what I actually post instead of strawmen of your own invention.

 

The order, even though you are reading it out of context is not from the Prophet.

So your paedophile prophet didn't dictate the Koran then? Even if he didn’t the fact remains there is a clear case of ‘convert or die’ in your precious book.

 

PT's example was valid as your quote was even older than the PT's centuries old one, and the inqusitions historically proven to have taken place. There is no convert or die order that applies today, and you know it so stop lieing.

I never said there was one today, will you please respond to what I actually post instead of strawmen of your own invention.

 

What difference does it make to my point that the Koran is older than the Inquisition? My point that both Christianity and Islam have clear instances of 'convert or die' in their past remains valid.

 

Yes Islam does not restrict other faiths.

Really so in Islamist societies people are completely free to evangelise for religions other than Islam and criticise Islam as part of that evangelism, convert between religions and so forth are they?

 

You are one confused cookie who is mixing up the state laws of the caliphate with Islam. Even then they were far more tolerant than the BNP manifesto put forward in your modern utopian BNP society.

You really seem to have problems with basic comprehension. I was responding to Plain Talke's claim that "Islam is very tolerant to other faiths, and set up non-interference laws to protect their interests." how then can you object to me referring to laws set up under Islam?

 

On what grounds do you claim that the BNP is in any sense mine? I've been threatened with violence and legal action by BNP members during my time on this board for opposing them in just the same manner that I oppose Islam.

 

Anyway slurs against my character aside thanks for underlining my point, Islam is massively intolerant by contemporary western standards, to try and make Islam look good you have to compare it to fascism and even there you aren't on very strong ground as there is considerably more social freedom in some fascist societies than many Islamist societies.

 

Rubbish, yet another made up lie from Plek, Islam has no apostasy law, but the Caliphate did and you clever cookie fail to see the difference. The Caliphate doesn't exist anymore and you clever cookie hasn't noticed that little fact, so no such law applies from Islam.

So sharia law has nothing to do with Islam then?

 

The Caliphate doesn't exist any more but there are territories which unlike Western Europe weren't fortunate enough to defeat the armies of Islam where sharia law with it's prohibitions on apostasy are enforced both by the state and by vigilante groups.

 

Islam does not punish people for leaving Islam, more lies, you are a pro aren't you Plek at making stuff up to suite your Islamophobic agenda?

Amnesty International disagree as do Abdul Rahman, Salman Rushie...

 

Please remind all of us what has been the punishment for traitors till recently in Britain Plek?

What has this got to do my response with Plain Talker's false claim that "every religion, as well as humanism and atheism" have a death penalty for those who convert?

 

Are you seriously trying to equate treason with converting to another religion?

 

Quite a picture you paint of Islam Plek and if I were not a Muslim I might even believe you but unfortunately for you I live the life of a Muslim and it's nothing like what a liar like you wants to portray it as. You have used out of context scriptures and don't seem to know the difference between Islam and the Islamic state Law that is now extinct, but you use it to frighten the unsuspecting forummers as though it still applies. You are one of the most disingenuous people I have come across Plek, so go and do some research and bore us with quotes from more dictionaries again.

My you are getting worked up aren't you. It's most amusing that as you post has gone on your degenerated from spewing logical fallacies and lies to outright personal abuse.

 

I can perhaps understand your rage, it must be very upsetting for you that the areas of the world dominated by your paedophile prophet's ideology that you obviously have such an emotional investment in are such hell holes in comparison to western democracies. And that Islam is so intolerant that you are forced to compare it to fascists like the BNP because Islam does so absurdly badly when compared to liberal democracy.

 

So anyway tab1 if as you claim "Islam does not punish people for leaving Islam" why are there so many examples of true believers in Islam punishing apostates in the name of Islam for doing so? Why do so many Islamic scholars seem convinced death is the appropriate punishment for the 'crime' of leaving Islam?

[Greybeard]

Life isn't a bed of roses for Muslims in UK.

 

Mohamed, a former member 'Lionz Of Da Dezert', goes to jail, - along with two other sons of Abu Hamza. Not for any religious principle, - no martyr he, - but for theft and fraud.

 

What I wonder would their punishment be in Iran or Saudi Arabia ?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5400828/Extremist-preacher-Abu-Hamzas-three-sons-jailed-for-luxury-car-scam.html

[Ms Macbeth]

Mod: Some posts have already been deleted. Instead of attacking other posters, please try and discuss the topic, otherwise this thread, like so many other similar ones, will be closed.