The new Islam megathread part 3

[tab1]

Mohammed did order the murder of non muslims and you made the bit in bold up. Plek never said it, to save you going back, here's the bit you originally responded to:

 

You went straight in calling him a liar and pretended that he said that 'Islam commands muslims today to murder non-muslims' because that is a lot easier to argue against. This is a classic strawman, the point he was actually making was not that the law applies today but that your prophet was a warlord who in this example ordered the deaths of people who wouldn't convert to his cult.

Read back to the bit where it was claimed that under Islam the choice would be to "convert or die" and when PT challenged that wrong assertion, Plek joined in to affirm that PT was wrong and that indeed would be the case. My contention is, that no that is not the case. Strawman is the introduction of something that the discussion wasn't about, to create an impression that fits in with Plek's world view.

It was as a response to this statement by PT that Plek used the verse from the Qur'an;

Originally Posted by Plain Talker

sorry, plek, but the only thing even remotely tu quoque in my comments was saying that Islam does not compel converts, but that the inquisition did.

Islam does not(in the present tense) and the inquisition did. Clearly Pleks assertion was that Islamic law still does and he was trying to justify it by using scriptures out of context.

[blurt]

there is no allah

[Plain Talker]

there is no allah

 

I do not have a problem with that being your world view. I, however do believe. In that, we have to agree to disagree, and respect each other's right to hold opposing viewpoints.

[Mr Goose]

I do not have a problem with that being your world view. I, however do believe. In that, we have to agree to disagree, and respect each other's right to hold opposing viewpoints.

 

Hi

 

What do you think of this piece

 

http://europenews.dk/en/node/23403

 

Mr Goooooseeeee

[Mr Goose]

Kicked out of Sunday school tab1, not out of academic school or university but kicked out of Sunday school which we Brits once had to try and teach us right from wrong, .

 

Not quite right. In the UK the Bishops in the House of Lords blocked free education for all for 86 years, because they wanted to keep the teaching of children under the control of the church.

 

It was power and control, nothing more. Sorry

[Plain Talker]

Hi

 

What do you think of this piece

 

http://europenews.dk/en/node/23403

 

Mr Goooooseeeee

 

I think the writer was in error when he seems to claim that only Islam has a hard and fast set of laws:- most laws, of most lands seem to boil down to the basics of the ten commandments:- "thou shalt be excellent to each other..."

 

look at the hard and fast set of rules that were in the Old Testament? stoning / "death" for wearing garments of mixed fibres ec etc. give your 10% tithes and sacrifices to the priests... etc.

[flamingjimmy]

Read back to the bit where it was claimed that under Islam the choice would be to "convert or die" and when PT challenged that wrong assertion, Plek joined in to affirm that PT was wrong and that indeed would be the case. My contention is, that no that is not the case. Strawman is the introduction of something that the discussion wasn't about, to create an impression that fits in with Plek's world view.

It was as a response to this statement by PT that Plek used the verse from the Qur'an;

Islam does not(in the present tense) and the inquisition did. Clearly Pleks assertion was that Islamic law still does and he was trying to justify it by using scriptures out of context.

 

No tab, you are flat out wrong. Plek's claim, as was stated clearly was:

 

"This is a clear example of convert or die ordered by your prophet himself is it not?"

 

You don't seem to want to address this (probably because there's no way you can refute it) so you made up that Plek said something else. Why not respond to it now?

[Wildcat]

No tab, you are flat out wrong. Plek's claim, as was stated clearly was:

 

"This is a clear example of convert or die ordered by your prophet himself is it not?"

 

You don't seem to want to address this (probably because there's no way you can refute it) so you made up that Plek said something else. Why not respond to it now?

 

I don't think the quote says that at all. The quote is talking about respecting the rights of the Umma ie all the Hebrew religions. My interpretation of the quotation is not about apostasy but about an attempt to find terms of peace through respect for all the religions in the area at the time.

 

I might be wrong but I think it is a reference to the Constitution of Medina that Mohammed negotiated that ended centuries of religious infighting and brought an end to an eye for an eye, blood feuds that had perpetuated it.

 

I will probably get shot down for this because I haven't time to look into the particular verse too closely, but to say it clearly says what Plek has said it says is not true.

[yeliz]

Iv'e never come across so many anally- retentive people, cut and paste..................cut and paste.........................cut and paste, he said this,and she said that.

 

Lightened up people, remember, breathe and exhale, and repeat.

[flamingjimmy]

Lightened up people, remember, breathe and exhale, and repeat.

 

Don't forget to hold it in:suspect: