Bassman62 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Are you suggesting that sex with young and pre-teen girls is aceptable an Islam?Well if Allah did it then it must be acceptable; to say otherwise would be blasphemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 You mean like executing Homosexuals in Iran or stoning women for adultry in Nigeria or demanding the death penalty for naming a teddy bear Mohamed in Somalia. Which kind of makes my point really - it's about culture and not Islam; horrible as those examples you cite are, they're more reflective of where they happened rather than the fact that those who perpetrated these actions were Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tab1 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yes but those cultures have moved on whereas Islam has to be adhered to as it was originaly written in the Koran and not as things are today; that is why I'd still like to know about wife beating and right hand posessions. You know where you Googled for info on right hand posessions and a load of Islamophobic tripe came up, well if you read through them there are some that put the Islamic perspective too, so stop wasting our time with stupid questions that have nothing to do with theology of Abrahamic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam. If you want to take part in a discussioin then show some understanding of the subject matter and let's move on. So how about answering what I asked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 You know where you Googled for info on right hand posessions and a load of Islamophobic tripe came up, well if you read through them there are some that put the Islamic perspective too, so stop wasting our time with stupid questions that have nothing to do with theology of Abrahamic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam. If you want to take part in a discussioin then show some understanding of the subject matter and let's move on. So how about answering what I asked? I'd still like to know about wife beating and right hand posessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tab1 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Well if Allah did it then it must be acceptable; to say otherwise would be blasphemy.:huh:wha'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebanginman Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Which kind of makes my point really - it's about culture and not Islam; horrible as those examples you cite are, they're more reflective of where they happened rather than the fact that those who perpetrated these actions were Muslim. Is this culture or Islam in your view then Homosexuality in the Qur'an The following passages are taken from the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an. "We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82) "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175) "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58) "And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29) Homosexuality in the Sharia While there is a consensus that same-sex intercourse is in violation of Islamic law, there are differences of opinion within Islamic scholarship about punishment, reformation, and what standards of proof are required before physical punishment becomes lawful. In Sunni Islam there are eight madhhabs, or legal schools, of which only four still exist: Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki. The main Shia school is called Ja'fari, but there are Zaidi and Ismai'ili also. More recently, some groups have rejected this tradition in favor of greater ijtihad, or individual interpretation. Of these schools, according to Michael Mumisa of the Birmingham-based Al Mahdi institute: * The Hanafi school does not consider same-sex intercourse to constitute adultery, and therefore leaves punishment up to the judge's discretion. Most early scholars of this school specifically ruled out the death penalty, others allow it for a second offence. * Imam Shafi'i considers same-sex intercourse as analogous to other zina; thus, a married person found to have done so is punished as an adulterer (by stoning to death), and an unmarried one, as a fornicator, is left to be flogged. * The Maliki school says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer. * Within the Ja'fari schools, Sayyid al-Khoi says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Which kind of makes my point really - it's about culture and not Islam; horrible as those examples you cite are, they're more reflective of where they happened rather than the fact that those who perpetrated these actions were Muslim.Not if they happened in Islamic countries where islamic law rules, in pakistan you can be freed by a civil only to be rearrested by the islamic court and retried. Read above regarding Stoning to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Is this culture or Islam in your view then Homosexuality in the Qur'an The following passages are taken from the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an. "We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82) "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175) "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58) "And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29) Homosexuality in the Sharia While there is a consensus that same-sex intercourse is in violation of Islamic law, there are differences of opinion within Islamic scholarship about punishment, reformation, and what standards of proof are required before physical punishment becomes lawful. In Sunni Islam there are eight madhhabs, or legal schools, of which only four still exist: Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki. The main Shia school is called Ja'fari, but there are Zaidi and Ismai'ili also. More recently, some groups have rejected this tradition in favor of greater ijtihad, or individual interpretation. Of these schools, according to Michael Mumisa of the Birmingham-based Al Mahdi institute: * The Hanafi school does not consider same-sex intercourse to constitute adultery, and therefore leaves punishment up to the judge's discretion. Most early scholars of this school specifically ruled out the death penalty, others allow it for a second offence. * Imam Shafi'i considers same-sex intercourse as analogous to other zina; thus, a married person found to have done so is punished as an adulterer (by stoning to death), and an unmarried one, as a fornicator, is left to be flogged. * The Maliki school says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer. * Within the Ja'fari schools, Sayyid al-Khoi says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer. They'll just say it's western propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Is this culture or Islam in your view then Homosexuality in the Qur'an The following passages are taken from the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an. "We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82) "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175) "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58) "And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29) Homosexuality in the Sharia While there is a consensus that same-sex intercourse is in violation of Islamic law, there are differences of opinion within Islamic scholarship about punishment, reformation, and what standards of proof are required before physical punishment becomes lawful. In Sunni Islam there are eight madhhabs, or legal schools, of which only four still exist: Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki. The main Shia school is called Ja'fari, but there are Zaidi and Ismai'ili also. More recently, some groups have rejected this tradition in favor of greater ijtihad, or individual interpretation. Of these schools, according to Michael Mumisa of the Birmingham-based Al Mahdi institute: * The Hanafi school does not consider same-sex intercourse to constitute adultery, and therefore leaves punishment up to the judge's discretion. Most early scholars of this school specifically ruled out the death penalty, others allow it for a second offence. * Imam Shafi'i considers same-sex intercourse as analogous to other zina; thus, a married person found to have done so is punished as an adulterer (by stoning to death), and an unmarried one, as a fornicator, is left to be flogged. * The Maliki school says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer. * Within the Ja'fari schools, Sayyid al-Khoi says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer. Largely cultural. The Muslims I work with, along with with the great majority I suspect would no more stone a homosexual to death than you or I would. There are 'Christians' who hate homosexuals and cite bible verse to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tab1 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 They'll just say it's western propaganda.it's western propaganda Oops, ....boy you are good, and oh so clever, do you support BNP by any chance? Have you got an indoor lavy yet that you had difficulty scrounging because of the immigrants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.