9/11 conspiracy theories

[sequin]

sequin, I'm not being funny, but you just nicely demonstrated the lack of knowledge of the techincal issues which has brought you to contrive an alternative reality.

Well normal reallity seems to have been suspended that day obviously .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Hlava

If the first attack was shown live or even that day no tv channel will admit to it and the footage has disappeared .I wonder if you can say were you saw it lots of people would love to know .

[artisan]

Sorry to disagree with you, but the first plane hitting the WTC was on TV that same day. In fact that very morning. I live in California, and I saw it. Repeatedly.

Sierra

Now matter how much you see it, it is still terrible

I wonder if those guys lived out the day?

The blokes by the hydraunt?

[Sierra]

Now matter how much you see it, it is still terrible

I wonder if those guys lived out the day?

The blokes by the hydraunt?

 

It was positively ghastly. The terror those people must have felt, knowing they were going to die. I can't imagine. Those fireman did live out the day, every one of them. Though at one point, they feared for one of their colleagues who didn't return to the firehouse until hours and hours after everyone else. They were all very lucky. Their entire day is documented here. No matter which side of the argument you're on, you will find it fascinating.

 

Sierra

[KenH]

Ken, just on this point alone - no-one knows what happens when a fully laden airliner smashes into a steel structure like this because it is unprecedented.

 

I know perfectly well what happens when a fully laden aircraft smashes into a steel structure as I have seen it happen twice. The aircraft demolishes some of the supports then the fires weaken others. At some point the structure can't support the weight above it and collapases which then causes each lower layer to collapse in turn. Of course you may like to believe that the men in black plant explosives in all tall building and standby so they can demolish the building at the same time?

[Phanerothyme]

I know perfectly well what happens when a fully laden aircraft smashes into a steel structure as I have seen it happen twice.

But you have nothing to compare it with? The only time this has happened was the WTC. There are no comparable events with which to draw a comparison.

 

 

Of course you may like to believe that the men in black plant explosives in all tall building and standby so they can demolish the building at the same time?

 

Let's ignore what you like to think I may believe as totally irrelevant and concentrate on some calculations

The aircraft demolishes some of the supports then the fires weaken others. At some point the structure can't support the weight above it and collapases which then causes each lower layer to collapse in turn.

As you say, as each floor collapses it brings the combined weight of the floors above to bear on the floor below, and this in turn causes the next floor to collapse and so on.

 

So given that the height of WTC 1 & 2 was 386 meters, what is the minimum time it could take to collapse?

 

It's a pretty simple calculation - answers in this thread please!

[Tony]

I've not done that calc Phan, but it's a pretty academic one to be honest IMO, and frankly it's impossible calculate with any degree of accuracy without full knowledge of what was going on with the structure of the building - which of course nobody can say with any certainty because there was no measurement equipment in place to monitor the entire structure as it failed. Any model will have an element of derivative data and therefore a non-conclusive outcome.

 

What we can say with certainty is that 100+ floors and half a million tons of steel. concrete, glass, gypsum, wood, and biological matter makes for a phenomenal amount of energy that increases at an exponential rate throughout the catastrophic event. Whatever the cause of collapse, that energy will not change, though the individual segments may.

 

I'd still like to see some calculations of these alternative physics from people who claim it should have taken longer to collapse. Perhaps the US Government turned up the gravitational field that day so they fell a bit faster to fit into the news bulletins?

[Phanerothyme]

Well would it be safe to assume that a building cannot fall faster than gravity can pull the whole thing down in freefall? If it falls faster than that, then it is being propelled down with a force greater than gravity.

 

Now, given that they were 390 odd meters high, you should be able to tell me how long they would take to collapse in freefall in a vacuum. Just an academic exercise....it's not that hard. I just want an answer to see if it tallies with mine.

[Tony]

Err, just what would that achieve Phan... even it were possible to calculate the rate of free fall which I don't believe it is. You know as well as I do that WTC free fall is the ultimate trick question.

 

I want somebody to provide calculations to demonstrate that what happened on the day wasn't possible. There is a lot of hot air about 'free fall' of half a million tons of material, but not a lot of science behind it... because the people repeating it don't understand what it is they are repeating!

[KenH]

It is great fun bending science to make up daft theories and can even lead to substantial income if you get a book deal. However, I can produce three facts that make it certain that the official story is correct:-

 

1. A big heavy aircraft full of tons of fuel, flew into the building. We all saw this happen. We know it happened because lots of people died on the flight and their relatives wouldn't cover all this up.

 

2. The tower fell down.

 

3. The intelligence services, far from their "men in black" reputation, actually couldn't organise a ****up in a brewery. You only have to think about two great nations going to war because of "intelligence" copied from the internet.

 

Based on these facts, I don't need to know if some crank thinks the building should have fallen in 13 seconds and yet it fell in only 10. An aircraft hit it and it fell down. The falling down bit took as long as it took.

[ann_a]

KenH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLgUUcrSEQs

It's a 4 minute trailer for Loose Change..interesting...