9/11 conspiracy theories

[Sierra]

Originally posted by back2basics

Calm down, i am not attacking you either. I have better things to do with my time. You must get lots of people attacking you to accuse me of that IMO.

 

You did call people anti-american for talking about the prisoner abuse. And i beleive i pointed out then the hypocracy of that statement, which it was. I pointed out in that thread, exactly whay you pointed out just now that America if diverse. It was in the thread that was removed, i am sure people remember it. Because in that thread you basically said that people should not talk about America, and as i said then people have a very real right as our troops are also fighting over there and these prison abuses endanger our troops as well.

 

I didn't see the responce to the thread that was pulled, i have been away from computers for a few days, by the time i returned it was gone and the girl was banned.

 

So in a way we agree. No olive branchneeded, i don't take things personally just like to stick to the facts, i suggest you do the same.

 

For all those folks waiting for a BIG NAS-TAY FIGHT...Ha!

 

back2basics and I have kissed and made up. He sent me a very nice pm, and I appreciate his arguments. He brought some facts to my attention of which I was previously unaware.

 

I still stand by what I said, but I misunderstood that what YOU meant was that the behavior of american troops put british troops at risk as well. Of course that's true. I honestly must have missed it. I'm sorry.

 

It certainly doesn't mean that I refuse to appreciate a differing point of view. It is after all, THE reason I joined this forum.

 

The old saying, "Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it" now has particular significance for me.

 

I suppose it is my own personal quirk or pet peeve (maybe it's an american thing?) that I don't like others to speak for me. Which is why I take great umbrage at polls and surveys. There are just too many ways the results can be skewed to fit a certain point of view, and I don't trust them.

 

back2basics, I think we just misunderstood each other. We probably share more similarities than differences, witness the belief in the strength of our own convictions. I do appreciate you taking the time to pm me. Really, I do.

 

And now, since we never hear anything good about the US military, I saw this story last night...and was in awe at the courage of this extraordinary young girl.

 

http://www.grossmanmed.com/zubaida.htm

 

Sierra

[wendygs]

Not to mention all the stuff that's never been disclosed about the Lockerbie Disaster.

[AtticusFinch]

It does make you wonder.

 

I actually read that the PNAC report about invading Iraq and "another Pearl Harbour" was written much earlier than 2000, in 1990 or 1991. I also watched a program which said that the moves made by the WTC jets were very advanced, in relation to the turns and descents they made. It claimed that they would be difficult moves for fighter pilots to make, and that no way would someone be able to do them after just a few weeks of flight training. The program also went on to suggest that the way the twin towers collapsed was suspicious. It claimed that if the structural steel members of the towers had been melted by the burning aircraft fuel and thus failed, it's unlikely that the two towers would have collapsed so "vertically". It suggested that a "tipping" of the building at a slight angle would have been more likely.

[Zafar]

I've read loads of stuff in the States about how the buildings collapsed through the use of controlled detonations etc. Alot of it can be wrote off as conspiracy theories, however the fact that alot of the information isn't being released seems to keep some of the crazier theories going.

 

I've also read the PNAC report and the mention of how a 'Pearl Harbour' type event was needed to have the 'excuse' to carry out the plan.

 

Personally, I believe that America is basically run by Zionist lobbyists, they seem to have their claws in every part of the American government and the recent stories of the Super Lobbyist coming from the US seem to confirm this.

 

'A Minnesota senator said he was concerned that congressional trips to Israel could be cut under lobbying reform proposals'

http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=1063

(Noel Coleman ? wasn't he the guy who got embarrassed by 'Gorgeous George' ?)

 

Its possible that the Israeli intellligence services and their cronies in the US knew about an impending attack and perhaps 'helped' it happen.

 

I imagine that Israel is not so much an Ally of the US, as it is of the prostitutes, sorry Congressmen.

 

Wasn't it said that Israel had the largest spy ring on US soil ?

How many times have AIPAC, JDL members been found guilty of spying ?

 

After watching the recent documentary about the Munich killings of 11 Israeli athletes, it appears that Israel has spies in nearly every country! Indeed the assassin used to kill the supposed Palestinian ring leader was British.

 

Found the following clip which is quite intresting.

 

In 2004, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Thomas Moorer passed away. Moorer, a World War II hero and one of the country’s highest ranking officers, had long been an outspoken critic of Israel – particularly of Israel’s brutal attack on a U.S. Navy ship, which had killed 34 American servicemen and injured 172. Just months before his death, Moorer appeared on Capitol Hill heading an independent inquiry, which found that Israel had “committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United States” – words he repeated in an op-ed in the military’s Stars and Stripes newspaper on Jan. 16, 2004

 

Someone mentioned the JFK story, again I'd be willing to bet money on a link to Israel. Especially when you consider that JFK wanted detailed inspections of the Israeli nuclear sites (which they concealed), and shortly after his assasination the 'special relationship' blossomed, and has continued to this day.

[LordChaverly]

Events of such enormity are fertile breeding grounds for conspiracy theories of one kind or another. The 'unanswered questions', if thoroughly investigated, usually have rational explanations, or may be accounted for by missing or incomplete data. There is also a tendency to construct speculative links between people or events in order to weave a plausible alternative view of who might have been responsible. A classic modern example of this is the assassination of JFK - a whole industry of conspiracy theories have been built upon this event. In his excellent book 'Case Closed', Gerald Posner meticulously examined the supposed 'facts' underpinning these theories and found that most of them were not facts at all, but through constant repetition in book after book, they became accepted as literal truth. Posner proves without a doubt in miy mind that Oswald killed Kennedy and that he acted alone, not at the behest of Castro, the Mafia the CIA or some other party. These conspiracy theories tend to weave convoluted and often tedious arguments which most people don't have the time or the inclination to examine. This is why they tend to gain credence in some circles, because no one can be bothered to expend the time in exposing them for the nonsense they almost always are.

[wendygs]

Events of such enormity are fertile breeding grounds for conspiracy theories of one kind or another. The 'unanswered questions', if thoroughly investigated, usually have rational explanations, or may be accounted for by missing or incomplete data. There is also a tendency to construct speculative links between people or events in order to weave a plausible alternative view of who might have been responsible. A classic modern example of this is the assassination of JFK - a whole industry of conspiracy theories have been built upon this event. In his excellent book 'Case Closed', Gerald Posner meticulously examined the supposed 'facts' underpinning these theories and found that most of them were not facts at all, but through constant repetition in book after book, they became accepted as literal truth. Posner proves without a doubt in miy mind that Oswald killed Kennedy and that he acted alone, not at the behest of Castro, the Mafia the CIA or some other party. These conspiracy theories tend to weave convoluted and often tedious arguments which most people don't have the time or the inclination to examine. This is why they tend to gain credence in some circles, because no one can be bothered to expend the time in exposing them for the nonsense they almost always are.

 

It's precisely because people dont have the time or inclination to examine situations such as the Lockerbie Disaster in sufficient depth that the powers that be are able to successfully bury whatever facts are available in a quagmire of inaccessible bureaucracy.

[LordChaverly]

It's precisely because people dont have the time or inclination to examine situations such as the Lockerbie Disaster in sufficient depth that the powers that be are able to successfully bury whatever facts are available in a quagmire of inaccessible bureaucracy.

 

 

Ah 'the powers that be' - another favourite deus ex machina of conspiracy theorists everywhere. I meant to mention that in most conspiracy theories, there is usually reference to some mysterious and nefarious force, equipped with devilish cunning and far-reaching powers, capable of manipulating people and events with the guile of a magician. Being a rather simple soul, I prefer the **** up theory as being the most reliable guide to seemingly inexplicable events (but there again, perhaps the 'powers that be' have somehow insidiously lulled me into a state of false consciousness).

[nick2]

I prefer the **** up theory as being the most reliable guide to seemingly inexplicable events (but there again, perhaps the 'powers that be' have somehow insidiously lulled me into a state of false consciousness).

 

More likely you were abducted by aliens and taken to "area 51", where they (with the help of a top secret US government department) erased your memory and then turned you into a cyborg wire tapping device so they can listen-in on every conversation you have. You will probably find a self-destruct button where your navel should be.

 

That is much more likely.

[KenH]

The problem with all these conspiracies is that they assume competance and so any problems must be down to a conspiracy. In general most government organisations are incompetant, and the US were also extremely unprepared and complacent. You have to use that as the backdrop to assessing what happened. For example, the poster asks why Bush sat and read a story to children while this was going on. Simple, he is a complete prat.

 

In the section where we are asked why NORAD didn't shoot down the airliners, the information is full of holes. It mentions that the transponder had been "shut off" some 20 minutes before they knew it had been hijacked. A transponder is a device which sends a code to the radar base station (eg. 1234) to identify which aircraft you are. If it fails then they can still see you on primary radar but don't necessarily know who you are. In the event of a hijacking then it is set with a special code but this is well know to all pilots so the terrorists would probably have prevented this. Simply not having a transponder could be interpreted as anything but most likely a power failure. The idea that within 20 minutes or so of losing contact with an aircraft that the airforce could be scrambled to intercept and could then find out what is happening is ridiculous. The only way this could work is if there were fighters standing by underneath the path of the airliners and they expected something to happen.

[Jake01]

I watched these two videos last night and there are just too many questions around the 9/11 attacks to be purely coincidental. Even if you have already heard stuff about conspiracies and not believed it, this stuff is worth watching:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=Loose+Change

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6495462761605341661&q=Martial+Law