9/11 conspiracy theories

[KenH]

We are asked to believe that a rookie pilot managed to manoeuvre a Boeing 757 from 7000 to 15 feet in a tight, banking 330 degree circuit. .

 

I don't know much about structural engineering, but what I do read makes perfect sense to me and it is obvious that a massive aircraft filled with fuel travelling at high speed will cause massive destruction. Although I can only apply common sense to structural engineering problems, I do know a great deal about flying and partcularly FAA pilots and regulations. This allows me to debunk this last statement of yours.

 

I don't know what the general public would regard as a "rookie pilot" but, despite the various "he couldn't even drive a car let alone a plane" type quotes on the internet, he was anything but a rookie. I don't know the exact number of hours he had, but he is quoted as having a Private Pilots Licence and 600 hours before applying to take his commercial licence which he then passed. He is also quoted as having an instrument rating, which is a very difficult advanced qualification which takes about 40 hours of flying "blind" using only the instruments. The average UK private pilot would take about 10 years to get that many hours and only about 5% have an instrument rating. A full time commercial pilot working for a UK airline would fly about that many hours in a year. A "rookie" pilot in the UK or the US would normally have about 50 - 100 hours and would certainly not have any advanced qualifications such as a commercail ticket or an instrument rating.

 

Although there is an instance on the internet of him being turned away from hiring an aircraft, he is also supposed to have rented aircraft several times and done long cross country flights to test security (whatever that means).

 

It is no more difficult to fly a 330 degree turn at 500 knots than it is at 200. The only difference is that you need much larger angles of bank to achieve the same turning circle and much larger forces are produced. When full of passengers it would be unsafe to bank in a dramatic manner or to pull large forces. When intending crashing into a building there is no problem with damaging the aircraft so you can obviously do what you like. Quotes on the internet about it being flown in a way that appeared to be a military plane are a misquote. The controllers meant that (and said later) that the don't see commercial aircraft flown in that way for safety reasons so thought it must be a military jet. There is no reason why the aircraft couldn't be flown in such a manner and the hijacker would have been quite able to do so.

 

Some of the crackpots point out that he had very little training on large jets. In fact this is of almost no relevenance, even if it was true. The simulator training given before a pilot is signed off to fly a particular large jet is not that long. The key bit to get the hang of is the landing and then the various emergencies. The actual flying is not complicated.

[artisan]

Just a point regarding the training. I would have thought that with the contacts Al Queda have, that it would have been quicker to put these guys through military training. This could have been done, secretly, in Syria or Iran for instance.

They would have then been practically anonymous and not drawn so much attention to themselves, with all the private lessons and what have you.

[KenH]

Just a point regarding the training. I would have thought that with the contacts Al Queda have, that it would have been quicker to put these guys through military training. This could have been done, secretly, in Syria or Iran for instance.

They would have then been practically anonymous and not drawn so much attention to themselves, with all the private lessons and what have you.

 

There wasn't any need to do this and the proof is that it worked and they killed lots of people in a dramatic way that changed the world. Before 2001 you could turn up at flight training organizations, of which every town would have one, and the only thing stopping you learning to fly would be handing over enough cash and speaking English. There was no way that anyone would bother to check visas or ask too many questions as they had no reason to suspect anything and they all wanted the money. It is only when someone wants to fly a commercial jet that they might be even asked for anything more than an address, and only then because big companies start to be involved who like paperwork.

[fnkysknky]

I'm not up to date on the building regulations in the USA so I can't say either way on whether the asbestos would need to be removed. Can't see why it would as it's an existing building and the asbestos in place wasn't causing any problems as far as I'm aware.

 

As for the other points

 

1. You wouldn't need that much kerosene to create a huge fireball and there would still be plenty left to continue to burn inside the buildings. Go and blow a drum up and see what I mean.

 

2. There is nothing suspicious about a 500,000t building comprising of 95% air falling down quickly.

 

3. The architects did allow for a collision - what they didn't allow for is a set of nutters flying rather large fuel bombs in to them with the sole purpose of causing as much damage as possible. They were designed to take an accidental collision in bad weather conditions. All this is irrelevant anyway as the towers survived the impacts so what's the problem?

 

4. Regarding the sprinkler system - when was the last time you were told it was a good idea to use water on a fuel fire?

 

5. Squibs of smoke? The only smoke I've noticed was the smoke that was forced out due to the floors above collapsing.

 

6. Comparing other fires to the WTC is complete nonsense - did the others have jets crash into them first thus taking out a large percentage of the buildings support structure? No. Was there a shed load of kerosene present? No.

 

Basically neither the crashes or the fires by themselves were enough to bring the towers down but together they were. It's not that hard to understand

[sequin]

The buildings also had tons of glass concrete and steel along with the air ! Do you really believe that a tank of kerosine could destroy a boeing and all its passengers explode in a massive black cloud that could be seen for miles ?

Melt 47 steel columns the like of which the demolition experts had never seen before, several commented that their size and thickness was "unbelievable " .

Cleverly melting the floors at the same time so the buildings could fall staight down and not topple !

 

The squibs are plain to see on many web sites if you look ,they appear much further down the buildings than the actual fires .

 

There are too many questions without answers.

 

Where are the three black boxes which several firemen have reported were found and taken away by the FBI whom now are denying exist ?

Why did so many people know beforehand that an attack was going to take place ?

How did Larry Silverstein know to take out terrorist insurance only a few months beforehand making him millions of dollars richer ?

How did a terrorists passport survive the inferno to be convieniently found close by ?

What of William Rodriguez's account of the massive basement explosion and walls cracking that took place seconds before the plane struck and strange noises he heard all around the building on different floors when rescuing people ?

This guy is a hero who had worked in the towers for 20 years He kept going back into the building to help people out, disregarding his own safety ,he has received a medal for bravery from Bush himself but for some reason his testamant was virtually ignored by the 9/11 commision .

The Duetche Bank building accross from the towers is about to be demolised it has over 650 small fragments of human bone littering it ,mostly on the roof how could that have happened if these people were killed by fire or crushed between the falling floors ?

 

Building no 7 fell just as quickly and neatly as the other two how come ? No plane hit it ,buildings closer didn't collapse, it had a couple of small fires but it went down in less than 10 seconds in a neat pile .

 

There are hundreds of unexplained events and coincidences ,so many that I now believe its those who believe the official story that are the "nuts "

Just accept what you see on tv, read in your morning paper and believe what the politicians tell you . You are being taken for fools .

 

If your happy in your minds that its all clear cut and easily explained dont bother trying to find out .

 

Im reading both sides not just one ,and I know 100% that something has gone on that Bush & Co want kept quiet .

I think we owe it to those people that died that day to find out what that is .

[Pingpang]

If you and angle 20 read all the way through this thread you'll see that there are no mysteries It's there is you want to find out the quiet realities rather than the half baked but noisy conspiracies.

 

lol i've done enuff reading on this subject over last few years

 

the official story doesn't add up to anyone who looks beyond surface with open mind

[Pingpang]

I don't know much about structural engineering, but what I do read makes perfect sense to me and it is obvious that a massive aircraft filled with fuel travelling at high speed will cause massive destruction.

 

just a small point but most of the fuel exploded in the impact-fireball

 

max burning temp of aviatyion fuel something like 1800 degrees farenheit

 

that's with full oxygen supply, not in the middle of a smoky building, evben if there was any fuel left to burn after initial explosion

 

melting temp of steel used in structure about 2400 deg farenht

 

do the sums they don't add up

[Pingpang]

sequin

[angle20]

dunno if it's been mentioned but u've got the mysterious controlled explosion demolition/collapse of a third building neaxt door to wtc that hadn't even been hit by plane

That's right, Pingpang. WT7 was an adjacent 47-storey building. It was not hit but mysteriously developed some small fires of its own. Owner Larry Silverstein made a comment on TV: "Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull out". This would support the concept of the whole site being subjected to an industrial demolition clearance.

[angle20]

If you and angle 20 read all the way through this thread you'll see that there are no mysteries It's there is you want to find out the quiet realities rather than the half baked but noisy conspiracies.

Tony - normally I'm quite good about reading back through threads but 50+ pages is a bit much even for me. It's possible that new information has emerged over time: the start of this thread pre-dates, for example, the publication of the US Government's Kean Commission Report (in July 2004).

 

9/11 was an iconic event which has made has had a major influence on international and domestic politics. I think it is legitimate for it to be subjected to intense and ongoing scrutiny.