artisan Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Seeing some of the archive footage being shown in the prog on BBC at present you realise the ferocity of the fires blazing within. This enough to soften steel, especially under the stress that that was undes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 just a small point but most of the fuel exploded in the impact-fireball max burning temp of aviatyion fuel something like 1800 degrees farenheit that's with full oxygen supply, not in the middle of a smoky building, evben if there was any fuel left to burn after initial explosion melting temp of steel used in structure about 2400 deg farenht do the sums they don't add up What temperature, precisely, is required to soften steel sufficiently that it yields under the specific loads endured in the WTC? What kind of steel was used in the construction of the WTC? I ask, because surely you must know in order to come to the conclusions you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 What temperature, precisely, is required to soften steel sufficiently that it yields under the specific loads endured in the WTC? What kind of steel was used in the construction of the WTC? I ask, because surely you must know in order to come to the conclusions you have. I think it is about 400-550 C when it first starts to give (dull red) but it may be different with different steels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaytsev Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 just a small point but most of the fuel exploded in the impact-fireball Wrong, the burning fuel did not all 'explode on impact' it burns for a long time, some of the fuel was forced from the impact to the lobby via the lift shafts, a number of people where burnt to death at ground floor level. This was witnessed in the film by the documentary film makers following the NYFD rookie. max burning temp of aviatyion fuel something like 1800 degrees farenheit Nice and precise I see. that's with full oxygen supply, not in the middle of a smoky building, evben if there was any fuel left to burn after initial explosion Ever heard of furnaces, You know the enclosed spaces were, steel, iron, aluminium etc. are melted. Also the planes made huge holes in the buildings there was enough air getting sucked in to fan an intense fire. melting temp of steel used in structure about 2400 deg farenht Who said it melted. It was weakened. do the sums they don't add up I did the sums and you do not add up :loopy: :loopy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Gaaahhhhh!!!!!!! How many more times!!! The building didn't fail because the steel melted, because the steel didn't melt!!!!!!!!!! The steel, concrete and associated structure failed in a combined and catastrophic manner!!!!! For those of us who know one or two things about buildings this is a very very simple concept to understand and needs no explaining. Please, just take my word for it. There, I feel better now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigflesh Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Gaaahhhhh!!!!!!! How many more times!!! The building didn't fail because the steel melted, because the steel didn't melt!!!!!!!!!! The steel, concrete and associated structure failed in a combined and catastrophic manner!!!!! For those of us who know one or two things about buildings this is a very very simple concept to understand and needs no explaining. Please, just take my word for it. There, I feel better now Yeah! I agree.... on a very simplistic level, imagine a Glass House and a hard brick. Only one pane will give in, but imagine it unsupported by a substantive interconnected alloy framework.... Catastrophic failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 To demonstrate it look at the pictures of the steel in bakery fire, earlier on in this thread. That gives you an idea what happens to steel at raised temp and pressure. And that was nothing compared to the WTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Then they can try looking up products that are specifically designed to improve the performance of steel in a fire, like Bi-Steel made by Corus, or just good old intumescents, claddings and coatings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPB! Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Not an expert, but having seen every tower block blown up on Norfolk Park I know what a controlled explosion looks like. The way the Twin towers collapsed seemed uncannily similar to be, too "neat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Like you say... you're not an expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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