Has anyone on here read The Koran?

[Wildcat]

I was replying to something you said about murder PT, I can look up the other points you mention if you would like me to.

 

 

There is a web site here if you are interested about Islam

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/skm60428.htm

 

Grahame, considering your stated views elsewhere on Mosaic Law and inerrancy in the bible it does seem utterly bizarre that you should be taking issue with Islam, when your own views correlate fairly well with the more reactionary of those in Islam

 

There is much value in Islam as there is in Christianity. I particularly like this passage:

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

 

This level of tolerance in the Koran allows people like the Rev. Ann Holmes Redding to say they are both Christian and Muslim. (Ref)

 

Whilst things like the Trinity are a little problematic, the Trinity was originally heresy for early Christians like Ireneus and so disbelief in the Trinity is not necessarily mutually exclusive with Islam.

[Grahame]

Grahame, considering your stated views elsewhere on Mosaic Law and inerrancy in the bible it does seem utterly bizarre that you should be taking issue with Islam, when your own views correlate fairly well with the more reactionary of those in Islam

 

There is much value in Islam as there is in Christianity. I particularly like this passage:

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

 

This level of tolerance in the Koran allows people like the Rev. Ann Holmes Redding to say they are both Christian and Muslim. (Ref)

 

Whilst things like the Trinity are a little problematic, the Trinity was originally heresy for early Christians like Ireneus and so disbelief in the Trinity is not necessarily mutually exclusive with Islam.

 

You are misquoting. This is what it really says. (SHAKIR) "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in ALLAH and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

 

They want Christians and Jews and everyone to believe in the Islamic Allah, otherwise we are all infidells.

 

This is what the Quran says about those who do not believe in Allah.

(009.111 SHAKIR) "Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement."

[briggy1967]

Well shiver mi timbers,thought it was FIVE wives not only FOUR.......The poor Buggers,gotta feel sorry for em aint ya,is probably why they got so much money (just imagine how much benefit they recieve with 4......FOUR wives and god knows how many kids)!!!

[Plain Talker]

You are misquoting. This is what it really says. (SHAKIR) "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in ALLAH and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

 

They want Christians and Jews and everyone to believe in the Islamic Allah, otherwise we are all infidells.

 

This is what the Quran says about those who do not believe in Allah.

(009.111 SHAKIR) "Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement."

 

 

with the greatest respect, Grahame, that's "Bull!"

 

Allah, the Islamic God, is the "God" of Abraham/ Jews/ Christians. God is one and the same. look at the name of God in Arabic:- Allah. Look at the name of God in Hebrew:- Ellell... how different are they? well, they aren't. not at all different. They have the same root, (it's like Ibrahim/ Abraham, Yitsak/ isaac, Ismail/ Ishmael. addam/ adham. it's like the words that a Muslim says when he wishes peace, by saying "Salaam Aleikum" in hebrew, what would we say? "Shalom Alecheim".

 

Islam comes from Abraham through his oldest son, Ishmael. Judaism, and Christianity come from Abraham through his younger son, Isaac. Do you honestly think that a man (regarded as a prophet in the three Abrahamic faiths) who was, according to both the Qur'an and the Torah, (the old testament) as being particularly pious, a man who "knew" the heart of God would teach one of his precious, and longed-for sons to worship an idol, a moon-god, whilst simultaneously teaching the other son that there is but one God?

 

(as a Christian, will you look at the "Shema" the call to prayer, of the Jew. What the Jew declares is "Hear, O Israel! The Lord thy God is One. Thou shalt worship the lord thy god with all of thy heart, all of thy soul, all of thy strength".

 

How does a Muslim start his call to prayer? "La illah-lil'ullah" :- I declare that there is no God but God, and only He is worthy of worship" there we have it. the declarations of faith do not differ..

 

Please, explain to me how these calls/ creeds differ?

[andrewchase]

with the greatest respect, Grahame, that's "Bull!"

 

Allah, the Islamic God, is the "God" of Abraham/ Jews/ Christians. God is one and the same. look at the name of God in Arabic:- Allah. Look at the name of God in Hebrew:- Ellell... how different are they? well, they aren't. not at all different. They have the same root, (it's like Ibrahim/ Abraham, Yitsak/ isaac, Ismail/ Ishmael. addam/ adham. it's like the words that a Muslim says when he wishes peace, by saying "Salaam Aleikum" in hebrew, what would we say? "Shalom Alecheim".

 

Islam comes from Abraham through his oldest son, Ishmael. Judaism, and Christianity come from Abraham through his younger son, Isaac. Do you honestly think that a man (regarded as a prophet in the three Abrahamic faiths) who was, according to both the Qur'an and the Torah, (the old testament) as being particularly pious, a man who "knew" the heart of God would teach one of his precious, and longed-for sons to worship an idol, a moon-god, whilst simultaneously teaching the other son that there is but one God?

 

(as a Christian, will you look at the "Shema" the call to prayer, of the Jew. What the Jew declares is "Hear, O Israel! The Lord thy God is One. Thou shalt worship the lord thy god with all of thy heart, all of thy soul, all of thy strength".

 

How does a Muslim start his call to prayer? "La illah-lil'ullah" :- I declare that there is no God but God, and only He is worthy of worship" there we have it. the declarations of faith do not differ..

 

Please, explain to me how these calls/ creeds differ?

 

Which of the three "equal" creeds do you believe in?

[Wildcat]

Well shiver mi timbers,thought it was FIVE wives not only FOUR.......The poor Buggers,gotta feel sorry for em aint ya,is probably why they got so much money (just imagine how much benefit they recieve with 4......FOUR wives and god knows how many kids)!!!

 

It is a better man than me that can deal with 4 mother-in-laws

[andrewchase]

It is a better man than me that can deal with 4 mother-in-laws

 

A scary concept!

 

But less scary if you are religiously allowed to keep them in sacks and beat them up if they venture an opinion on anything.

[Plain Talker]

Which of the three "equal" creeds do you believe in?

 

I am a Deist, I believe in God, I believe in One God.

 

That does not mean, however that I cannot acceppt that folk can, and do, believe in many gods, one god, or no god at all.

 

Does that answer your question?

[Wildcat]

You are misquoting. This is what it really says. (SHAKIR) "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in ALLAH and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

 

They want Christians and Jews and everyone to believe in the Islamic Allah, otherwise we are all infidells.

 

This is what the Quran says about those who do not believe in Allah.

(009.111 SHAKIR) "Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement."

 

There is plenty worse that is in the bible that I can quote back to you. Of course the quotes about slavery, genocide, suppression of women, religious intolerance, death penalty etc. can all be sidestepped if you accept that the bible isn't inerrant. Which fortunately most Christians do accept.

 

Similarly Islam has a long tradition of interpretation of its scriptures with its teachings being interpreted in different ways. For example, Abu Hanifah the founder of the oldest Sunni school taught that whilst wine was prohibited alcoholic drinks brewed from grains were ok, so long as not drunk to intoxication. There are feminist strands to Islam, and there are homosexuals in Islam. Queer Jihad estimate 5% of the Islamic population is homosexual (Ref).

 

Not everyone takes their Scriptures literally. And even those that do profess a literalist inerrancy manage for the most part to ignore the more barbaric passages whatever religion they follow.

 

As Richard Bulliet puts it "Jim Jones, David Koresh and Meir Kahane do not typify Christianity and Judaism in the eyes of the civilized West, but those same eyes are prone to see Osama bin Laden and Mullah Muhammad Omar as typifying Islam,"

[andrewchase]

I am a Deist, I believe in God, I believe in One God.

 

That does not mean, however that I cannot acceppt that folk can, and do, believe in many gods, one god, or no god at all.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

No, it does not answer the question.

 

Are you a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or something else you made up yourself?