Greybeard Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 As for the martydom business - it's suppsoed to be 72 Virgins, but at the same time the Koran, like the Bible and the Torah, teaches against suicide. And they all teach against fornication. Whatever, I wonder, is a young male suicide bomber supposed to do with 72 virgins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cressida Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 And they all teach against fornication. Whatever, I wonder, is a young male suicide bomber supposed to do with 72 virgins ? cross his legs of course:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 cross his legs of course:cool: I would have said 'lose count' - but this is a serious thread so a little less levity please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cressida Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I would have said 'lose count' - but this is a serious thread so a little less levity please If you say so, hmmm!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I know, i know, I said I was out of the debate. just to comment. (NB have joined both posts together for simplicity.) 1) The spellings Koran, or Qur'an are both acceptable, Qur'an is preferable, afaik 2) You obviously haven't read (or taken any notice of) anything that anyone else has posted in this thread, or you would have seen my explanation, earlier, correcting someone else's erroneous comment that a man is permitted to have 5 wives. it's not, it's up to 4 wives, but I also explained that there are conditons on taking second or subsequent wives. 3) Adultery... see JoeP's comment above this one about the penalty being stoning to death, in Christianity, but not in Qur'anic Islam.. 4) It's most certainly NOT thousands of virgins for suicide bombers... it's only 72, and that for Martyrs, IIRC, not suicides, as suicide is forbidden in Islam. 5) Violence in Christianity:- The old testament is full of violence and bloodshed (See the OT books of Exodus, Deuteronomy and Joshua for laws giving death penalty, and the mass slaughters committed on the peoples who lived in the lands the children of israel took over. Excuse me PT, I wasn't going to say anything, but with reference to number 3 JoeP said, "I can't find anything about capital punishment in teh Koran for adultery, but it has been introduced under Shariah Laws." You know perfectly well that in Christianity Jesus saved the life of the woman caught in adultery who was about to be stoned to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewchase Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Some quranic verses to have a read of. 2.99, 2.121, 2.171, 3.48 ,5.53, 8.55, 9.28, 9.30, 98.6 Draw your own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Excuse me PT, I wasn't going to say anything, but with reference to number 3 JoeP said, "I can't find anything about capital punishment in teh Koran for adultery, but it has been introduced under Shariah Laws." You know perfectly well that in Christianity Jesus saved the life of the woman caught in adultery who was about to be stoned to death. The Levitical laws (given in leviticus and deuteronomy) prescribe death for adulterers in fact, lots of crimes carry the DP in leviticus and Deut'. just look at this one chapter... leviticus 20 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. Lev 20:4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Lev 20:5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people. Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Lev 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I [am] the LORD your God. Lev 20:8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I [am] the LORD which sanctify you. Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood [shall be] upon him. Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. Lev 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood [shall be] upon them. Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it [is] wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. Lev 20:16 B: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. Lev 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it [is] a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity. Lev 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people. Lev 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity. Lev 20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless. Lev 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it [is] an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless. Lev 20:22 ¶ Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. Lev 20:24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people. Lev 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. Lev 20:26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD [am] holy, and have severed you from [other] people, that ye should be mine. Lev 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Some quranic verses to have a read of. 2.99, 2.121, 2.171, 3.48 ,5.53, 8.55, 9.28, 9.30, 98.6 Draw your own conclusions. no, andrew, DON'T draw your own conclusions, from just reading those verses in isolation. Read them in context and with understanding. As with ANY verse from scripture. As has been demonstrated many, many times in the past, you can take a verse, or a selection of verses, from any scripture, OT, NT, the Qur'an, or the Baghvadhgita for that matter, and tell the ill informed, and unenlightened that it can mean absolutely anything. For crying out loud, if one was cynical enough, you could take the verse from the gospel (Matthew 27:5-8 ) the one where Judas went out and hanged himself, to argue that the bible tells us we must commit harikari! (or at least that it's Scriptural to do so) jeeesh. :roll: it's true what they say, isn't it? :roll: "Of all the senses, common sense is the least common of them all!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewchase Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 no, andrew, DON'T draw your own conclusions, from just reading those verses in isolation. Read them in context and with understanding. As has been demonstrated many, many times in the past, you can take a verse, or a selection of verses, from any scripture, OT, NT, the Qur'an, or the Baghvadhgita for that matter, and tell the ill informed, and unenlightened that it can mean absolutely anything. For crying out loud, if one was cynical enough, you could take the verse from the gospel (Matthew 27:5-8 ) the one where Judas went out and hanged himself, to argue that the bible tells us we must commit harikari! (or at least that it's Scriptural to do so) jeeesh. :roll: it's true what they say, isn't it? :roll: "Of all the senses, common sense is the least common of them all!" Wise words. But who are they aimed at. Exploding Jews? Exploding Christians? Exploding Brahmists? No, none of them actually go boom. Lets not keep ignoring the elephant in the room, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Excuse me PT, I wasn't going to say anything, but with reference to number 3 JoeP said, "I can't find anything about capital punishment in teh Koran for adultery, but it has been introduced under Shariah Laws." You know perfectly well that in Christianity Jesus saved the life of the woman caught in adultery who was about to be stoned to death. I know you don't like the site on Christianity but the answer to your question is on religioustolerance.org..... Roman Catholic Archbishop of Lagos, Dr. Anthony Olubunmi Okogie, said that the "official text of the Qur'an only sanctions a punishment of so many lashes for such an offence not stoning to death...[the] punishment of stoning was introduced later by Omar, the second Calif for reasons best known to him. <snip> "...the Islamic legal scholar Tarik Abdul-Rahman states they are part of the Hadith (collections of sayings and acts of the Prophet), and go back to the Pentateuch (first five books of Hebrew Scripture)." 7 Execution by stoning is thus in harmony with the 613 laws which make up the Mosaic code in the Bible. (Ref) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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