Has anyone on here read The Koran?

[JFKvsNixon]

And yes JFK I agree with your last sentence, but like plekhanov I find it hard when I hear of the things that are done in the name of religion, and I expect if you were present at a stoning I expect and hope you would be as disturbed as I think I might be.

 

But you are judging the actions of 1 billion people by the actions of the evil few.

[Grahame]

But you are judging the actions of 1 billion people by the actions of the evil few.

 

Not necessarally JFK. This is what plekhanov does.

 

I actually like Muslims. I work with them and find them nice people and while I am off work after being in hospital I am expecting a Muslim to be covering my work for me.

 

No it is the actions of the few that I don't like but what you have to remember is that they do it in the name of Allah and all Muslims subscribe to the same teaching.

[Hepstall]

Seems like your love of Jesus and all things Christian has actually blinded you.

[JFKvsNixon]

No it is the actions of the few that I don't like but what you have to remember is that they do it in the name of Allah and all Muslims subscribe to the same teaching.

 

 

There have been plenty of nutters who have done evil things in the name of God all around the world, Chistrianity included. I would disagree with your assertion that all Muslims subscribe to the same teaching.

[Grahame]

There have been plenty of nutters who have done evil things in the name of God all around the world, Chistrianity included. I would disagree with your assertion that all Muslims subscribe to the same teaching.

 

Do you think I am happy with so-called Christians who do stupid things? Of course I am not.

 

You will have to explain to me why Muslims do not keep the Koran.

[Grahame]

Seems like your love of Jesus and all things Christian has actually blinded you.

 

From Matthew chapter 13.

 

That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea. And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down. And the whole crowd stood on the beach. And he told them many things in parables……Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, this is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

 

Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'

 

But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

[Wildcat]

Not necessarally JFK. This is what plekhanov does.

 

I actually like Muslims. I work with them and find them nice people and while I am off work after being in hospital I am expecting a Muslim to be covering my work for me.

 

No it is the actions of the few that I don't like but what you have to remember is that they do it in the name of Allah and all Muslims subscribe to the same teaching.

 

The same can be said of Christianity.

 

Jim Jones, Eric Rudolph, James Kopp, Paul Hill all did what they did in the name of Christianity. There is a Christian group that supports terrorism whose name I am not even going to mention, because of the disturbed stuff on their website . I will mention the Westboro Baptist church they again are extreme (but moderate in comparison) but they are a reflection of right wing Christianity and the Church groups that make a living preaching hate.

 

I am not making this point to slag off Christianity, I am making it because judging Islam by the standards of Islamic terrorists would be exactly the same as judging christianity by the standards of the group I have listed above.

 

You admit that you have a Muslim friend. You don't think he will kill you if you disagree with him surely ?? You don't think he wants to go around stoning people ? If you don't then why say some of the things you have done ?

 

Jesus preached tolerance, he didn't do this by criticising other people's religions. He did this by expounding on what tolerance meant. It can be argued pragmatically, in that you don't convince people by blaming innocents, you convince people through constructive criticism and by example, by practicing tolerance. That is not to advocate any sort of relatavism... homophobia, terrorism and violence should always be challenged. Challenging injustice is not however helped by using language and generalities that offend and alienate people who would otherwise support you and are the instruments for the changes we all want to see.

 

ps I will pm the christian terorist group to you, if you don't believe it exists.

[Wildcat]

Do you think I am happy with so-called Christians who do stupid things? Of course I am not.

 

You will have to explain to me why Muslims do not keep the Koran.

 

Why should he, when you don't understand or explain the Christians you disapprove of ?

 

The reasons are likely to be very similar to the Christians who don't share your view of Christianity.

 

Additionally with Islam there is a history of being persecuted, of colonialism, being made refugees from their homelands and having obnoxious religious dictatorships supported by western Governments. This sort of history inevitably gives rise to discontent.

[Grahame]

The same can be said of Christianity.

 

Jim Jones, Eric Rudolph, James Kopp, Paul Hill all did what they did in the name of Christianity. There is a Christian group that supports terrorism whose name I am not even going to mention, because of the disturbed stuff on their website . I will mention the Westboro Baptist church they again are extreme (but moderate in comparison) but they are a reflection of right wing Christianity and the Church groups that make a living preaching hate.

 

I am not making this point to slag off Christianity, I am making it because judging Islam by the standards of Islamic terrorists would be exactly the same as judging christianity by the standards of the group I have listed above.

 

You admit that you have a Muslim friend. You don't think he will kill you if you disagree with him surely ?? You don't think he wants to go around stoning people ? If you don't then why say some of the things you have done ?

 

Jesus preached tolerance, he didn't do this by criticising other people's religions. He did this by expounding on what tolerance meant. It can be argued pragmatically, in that you don't convince people by blaming innocents, you convince people through constructive criticism and by example, by practicing tolerance. That is not to advocate any sort of relatavism... homophobia, terrorism and violence should always be challenged. Challenging injustice is not however helped by using language and generalities that offend and alienate people who would otherwise support you and are the instruments for the changes we all want to see.

 

You have mentioned some of that before and I have replied to it already so just as an overview you could say there are faults on both sides but things like stoning which is a basic tenet of Islam is downright wrong and I hope you are not saying I should be tolerant of it?

[Wildcat]

You have mentioned some of that before and I have replied to it already so just as an overview you could say there are faults on both sides but things like stoning which is a basic tenet of Islam is downright wrong and I hope you are not saying I should be tolerant of it?

 

No you shouldn't be tolerant of stoning.

 

But stoning isn't a basic tenet of Islam (it isn't mentioned in the Koran), any more than it is any other religion that includes Deuteronomy and Leviticus in their religious scripture. Very few countries include stoning as a penalty and of those very few ever carry it out.

 

Criticise the Hadith and you will find the majority of Muslims can support you. Criticise the religion and you alienate them and create barriers.