Has anyone on here read The Koran?

[daverity]

My point re the web is that anyone can claim anything, therefore there should be some caution before taking everything as being the Gospel truth.

 

For instance a person could easily setup a website claiming to be a convert from Judaism and then going on to make a whole series of derogatory and inflammatory remarks about Judaism.

 

You are very correct Zafar to be sceptical, questioning and suspicious of the content of that found on the net. It is full of the ramblings of the delusioned, disingenous and downright barmy theories of some of the world's charlatans. Pity really that you can't apply the same to the ramblings of some guy in Saudi Arabia who 1500 years ago claimed the angel Gabriel came for a chat with him in a cave :loopy:

[cloudybay]

You are very correct Zafar to be sceptical, questioning and suspicious of the content of that found on the net. It is full of the ramblings of the delusioned, disingenous and downright barmy theories of some of the world's charlatans. Pity really that you can't apply the same to the ramblings of some guy in Saudi Arabia who 1500 years ago claimed the angel Gabriel came for a chat with him in a cave :loopy:

 

You mean it's not true then? You'll be telling me the tooth fairy was made up by well meaning dentists next

[Bartfarst]

You are very correct Zafar to be sceptical, questioning and suspicious of the content of that found on the net. It is full of the ramblings of the delusioned, disingenous and downright barmy theories of some of the world's charlatans. Pity really that you can't apply the same to the ramblings of some guy in Saudi Arabia who 1500 years ago claimed the angel Gabriel came for a chat with him in a cave :loopy:

 

 

Now that's logic beyond any sane argument.

 

People ask for proof about anything and everything, and goodness knows half of the Forum contributors think that the press tell nothing but lies. So why ever should we take seriously books written back in times when half of people believed in witches and the other half thought the world was flat?

[daverity]

You mean it's not true then? You'll be telling me the tooth fairy was made up by well meaning dentists next

 

No the tooth fairy is very real, she came and visited me only last week here in Aigburth and we went down the pub together. She's a tight cow though because after I got the first round in which wasn't cheap (she drink's brandy and babycham) she buggered off because she was going out clubbing with David Icke! :huh:

[cloudybay]

Now that's logic beyond any sane argument.

 

People ask for proof about anything and everything, and goodness knows half of the Forum contributors think that the press tell nothing but lies. So why ever should we take seriously books written back in times when half of people believed in witches and the other half thought the world was flat?

 

Parental responsibilities, in this context, should start and end by providing children with information to enable them to make informed choices and decisions. Unfortunately, this is seldom the case. Pressures in adulthood are no longer the sole domain of family and friends, but media moguls, movie stars and other worthless role models eat into the psyche of the vulnerable. It therefore follows that to have a crutch to lean on, be told what to think, how to behave, what to wear and eat, is infinitely preferable, for some, to having to use the one thing that should make us unique, a brain. This is why the power of self definition and destination is removed by the few, at the very early stages of the many. It's commonly known as control. To deny this in any shape or form only goes to prove my point, as if it needed proving at all.

[wendygs]

 

There isn't a central register of 'converts'.

 

 

Please would you mind clarifying this particular comment. Thank you. wgs

[dodgy33]

Here is an interesting website which is run by ex-Muslims (yes, there are some - indeed many, but they tend to prefer to keep a low profile for obvious reasons). The site includes close textual exegesis of the Koran and offers a very different take on this book to the 'little book of tolerance and calm' approach which is fast becoming a conventional wisdom in the West. The site also includes a very active forum, in which ex-muslims, practising muslims and never-were muslims engage in no holds barred debate. It also includes links to many other sites.

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

 

This is an even more interesting website run by muslims to give people more of an insight about the Quran.

 

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm

 

this is only one of 1000's websites that exist for people to gain knowledge on what is the fastest growing religion in the world!

[LordChaverly]

This is an even more interesting website run by muslims to give people more of an insight about the Quran.

 

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm

 

this is only one of 1000's websites that exist for people to gain knowledge on what is the fastest growing religion in the world!

 

Islamists seem to take enormous delight in repeating the phrase that 'Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world'. What they often fail to mention is that this, if indeed it is true, is due almost entirely to the higher birth rates in muslim communities, allied to the severe moral, social and (in many cases) legal penalties for apostacy. Historically, the spread of Islam has largely been through conquest and forced conversion rather than through voluntary conversion.

[LordChaverly]

The act of apostacy is a serious offence in all of the monothesic religions.

 

Indeed what does it say in the Torah ?

 

Deuteronomy 13:6-10:

 

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

HOWEVER, this has to be taken in the context of the Law of the land.

 

If the law of the land dictates that becoming an appostate is a criminal offence then it would be silly to openly tell everyone that you've commited a crime! Its a no brainer!

 

Under the UK law its not an offence, so people are free to choose and follow their beliefs.

 

My point re the web is that anyone can claim anything, therefore there should be some caution before taking everything as being the Gospel truth.

 

For instance a person could easily setup a website claiming to be a convert from Judaism and then going on to make a whole series of derogatory and inflammatory remarks about Judaism. There isn't a central register of 'converts'.

 

In the current climate, its kind of en-vogue to be an ex Muslim who slates Islam or other muslims.

 

Its true that muslims see apostates as 'criminals', just as orthodox Jews will see apostates in a similar light. Its only a problem when they take it upon themselves to break the laws of the Land in 'punishing' them.

 

I've met many Iranians during my time working in the South, and contrary to the 'fundamentalist' picture painted in the press, the vast majority of them were western leaning secularists (perhaps alot were exiles from the time of the Shah's removal?).

 

We tended to disagree in debates about religion and Arab/Persian history but there is nothing wrong with disagreeing. Alot of Iranian's dont hold Arabs in high regards, but similarly alot of Arabs dont hold the Iranians in high esteem.

Perhaps its not too dissimilar to the English/Irish phenomenon.

 

Finally the notion of apostacy is nothing new, so I dont have a problem 'believing' you.

 

Z

 

I am pleased that you have no problem in believing me with regard to the existence of muslim apostates. You are of course right to argue that apostacy exists in all religions (and so it should). However, I tend to think that the reaction to apostacy within the muslim religion is fundamentally and qualitatively different to that of all other major religions, whether montheistic or not. In particular, the muslim religion seems to be the only one today which meets out condign punishments to apostates (in many muslim countries it is a criminal offence to forgo the Islamic faith, with severe penalties - in some cases death and in others long terms of imprisonment - attached). Within muslim communities in the West, apostates are likely to suffer ostracism from their families, which is why they are likely to keep a low profile).

[Ninjamagic]

Islamists seem to take enormous delight in repeating the phrase that 'Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world'. What they often fail to mention is that this, if indeed it is true, is due almost entirely to the higher birth rates in muslim communities, allied to the severe moral, social and (in many cases) legal penalties for apostacy. Historically, the spread of Islam has largely been through conquest and forced conversion rather than through voluntary conversion.

 

#The biggest lie invented.