Bradfield Road car park (Hillsborough) - charges and "fines"

[Moosey]

They can take you to court for non payment of a parking charge (like non-payment of a bill I suppose)...whether they will or not is a different matter...

 

No, they really can't.

 

There's no legal basis for this to be a parking charge. The only method they would have to bring such a case before a Court would be breach of contract, which would almost certainly fail.

 

In the same way that a disclaimer notice makes no difference to a claim following injury (you can't consent to someone's negligence, therefore signs warning "beware of the pothole" are pointless), you can't have a hope of enforcing an unfair term in a contract.

[mike84]

They can take you to court for non payment of a parking charge (like non-payment of a bill I suppose)...whether they will or not is a different matter...

 

They will not. They can not win. It's not like non payment of a bill mainly because you actually have a real contract with an energy company for example.

[MobileB]

No, they really can't.

 

There's no legal basis for this to be a parking charge. The only method they would have to bring such a case before a Court would be breach of contract, which would almost certainly fail.

 

 

Or if, for instance you park in a shops loading bay then it could be classed as tresspass as there is not a contract to park as you have in, for instance, a retail park. Both are civil matters that are dealt with in a county court. The risk you run is if you have driven past a sign saying no parking or whatever and you choose to park and then refuse to co-operate (ie ignore all correspondence), then if it does go to court you will almost certainly be found against. With county court if you then do not pay with costs then it could affect credit rating etc but that is the risk you run when playing the odds game.

[Moosey]

Or if, for instance you park in a shops loading bay then it could be classed as tresspass as there is not a contract to park as you have in, for instance, a retail park. Both are civil matters that are dealt with in a county court. The risk you run is if you have driven past a sign saying no parking or whatever and you choose to park and then refuse to co-operate (ie ignore all correspondence), then if it does go to court you will almost certainly be found against. With county court if you then do not pay with costs then it could affect credit rating etc but that is the risk you run when playing the odds game.

 

Not even slightly.

 

The only thing I agree with is that this is a civil matter.

 

Refusal to co-operate does not mean you will be found against in Court. I wish it did, as my job would be far easier. Civil law requires evidence. Evidence of a breach of a contract in the absence of unfair terms. It's clear to me that these claims for £80 for a car park space are excessive, and would be considered a penalty, therefore not enforceable.

 

Also, it's a small claim, therefore there are no costs, so don't try to discourage people with that one either. The only recoverable costs in a small claim are the court fees, which are very limited.

 

Just to add, in your first example, trespass, if you wished to pursue that as a civil matter, you'd have to show a quantifiable loss, establish that the loss was as a direct result of the trespass, and you might then succeed. You couldn't argue trespass in the case of someone using a parking space. What would the loss be for blocking a loading bay? Could the delivery still take place? If not, then there's a possible loss. If they had to park 2metres down the road, where's the loss?

Edited July 6, 2010 by Moosey

[mike84]

Or if, for instance you park in a shops loading bay then it could be classed as tresspass as there is not a contract to park as you have in, for instance, a retail park. Both are civil matters that are dealt with in a county court. The risk you run is if you have driven past a sign saying no parking or whatever and you choose to park and then refuse to co-operate (ie ignore all correspondence), then if it does go to court you will almost certainly be found against. With county court if you then do not pay with costs then it could affect credit rating etc but that is the risk you run when playing the odds game.[/QUOTe]

 

this would never happen and the odd couple of cases that have made it to court have been found in favour of the defendant, not the parking company. this kind of talk just adds to the scaremongering and is the tactics that the companies employ, saying it will affect your credit rating, etc etc. They know that there is no chance of them ever winning a court case so they try to scare people into paying up.

[Moosey]

this would never happen and the odd couple of cases that have made it to court have been found in favour of the defendant, not the parking company. this kind of talk just adds to the scaremongering and is the tactics that the companies employ, saying it will affect your credit rating, etc etc. They know that there is no chance of them ever winning a court case so they try to scare people into paying up.

 

Absolutely! The whole "you'll end up paying our costs" thing annoys me. Same rubbish argument that these companies come out with, along with "we'll send someone round to collect the money or property of that value".

 

Companies like these rely on people's ignorance of the law.

[MobileB]

Not even slightly.

 

The only thing I agree with is that this is a civil matter.

 

Refusal to co-operate does not mean you will be found against in Court. I wish it did, as my job would be far easier. Civil law requires evidence. Evidence of a breach of a contract in the absence of unfair terms. It's clear to me that these claims for £80 for a car park space are excessive, and would be considered a penalty, therefore not enforceable.

 

Also, it's a small claim, therefore there are no costs, so don't try to discourage people with that one either. The only recoverable costs in a small claim are the court fees, which are very limited.

 

Just to add, in your first example, trespass, if you wished to pursue that as a civil matter, you'd have to show a quantifiable loss, establish that the loss was as a direct result of the trespass, and you might then succeed. You couldn't argue trespass in the case of someone using a parking space. What would the loss be for blocking a loading bay? Could the delivery still take place? If not, then there's a possible loss. If they had to park 2metres down the road, where's the loss?

 

So by using your example, what you are saying is that if I go and take my football on to the local school playing fields, the school could not "prosecute" me (my invert) for tresspassing on their property, ie they could only try to sue me for quantifiable loss which would be nil?

 

By the same token, could I come round and sit in your back garden with a few cans and fags at any time I wanted?

[Moosey]

So by using your example, what you are saying is that if I go and take my football on to the local school playing fields, the school could not "prosecute" me (my invert) for tresspassing on their property, ie they could only try to sue me for quantifiable loss which would be nil?

 

By the same token, could I come round and sit in your back garden with a few cans and fags at any time I wanted?

 

There's two different things there.

 

You can't prosecute anyone. You're not the CPS. You're an individual.

 

There's a criminal offence of trespass, or more specifcally offences such as trespassatory assembly and similar (aggravated trespass etc), which the police would be involved in. There's also public order offences, which would be relevant. The school in your example could not prosecute you, but could call the police, and I suspect would, if you were causing a problem.

 

Don't confuse civil and criminal law.

[MobileB]

There's two different things there.

 

You can't prosecute anyone. You're not the CPS. You're an individual.

 

There's a criminal offence of trespass, or more specifcally offences such as trespassatory assembly and similar (aggravated trespass etc), which the police would be involved in. There's also public order offences, which would be relevant. The school in your example could not prosecute you, but could call the police, and I suspect would, if you were causing a problem.

 

Don't confuse civil and criminal law.

 

I did say my inverts for prosecute.

 

So what about me coming round into your garden with a few cans and fags. I am on your private property so unless I cause criminal damage the police will not get involved. What action will you take against me?

[Moosey]

I did say my inverts for prosecute.

 

So what about me coming round into your garden with a few cans and fags. I am on your private property so unless I cause criminal damage the police will not get involved. What action will you take against me?

 

Ask you where my garden is as I live in an apartment!

 

Joke. Lawyers don't live in apartments, we live in mansions.

 

I'd still be able to cause the police. The definition of public order offence is quite wide. Civil law doesn't offer me any remedies, other than suing you for damages, potentially taking out an injunction and similar. Of course I'm also legally entitled to use reasonable force to remove you from my property, and if you refuse to move, call the police as you'd not only be breaching the peace, but also more likely than not committing one of the above public order offences.

 

If you do come round, could you bring me a new keyboard as my o and a keys are playing up.