Old_Bloke Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 "Overall do you think Rotherham, Meadowhall and Sheffield would benefit from the introduction of Bus Rapid Transit North?" What a loaded question! It would take a spectacular balls-up for the new bus system not to benefit these areas. Doesn't mean to say that it's the best approach though... It's a pity that SYPTE and the local authorities don't seem to have the b*ll*cks to ask for money to extend the tram network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SENSIBLE-BUS Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 It's a pity that SYPTE and the local authorities don't seem to have the b*ll*cks to ask for money to extend the tram network They did and they were turned down flat. Wonder why. Track record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 They did and they were turned down flat. Wonder why. Track record? The Government appears to have cooled on tram systems for the moment. It wasn't just the Supertram extensions that were turned down, but the Leeds plans, Liverpool plans etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 The Government appears to have cooled on tram systems for the moment. I'd guess that it's down to an overall lack of cash these days. Maybe Supertram could become a bank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 It's a pity that SYPTE and the local authorities don't seem to have the b*ll*cks to ask for money to extend the tram network They did and the Government turned them down. Government said go away and look at bus based alternatives because we think they offer better value for money. Hence the BRT proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJC Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Good comments, thanks. So, instead of "do you think Rotherham, Meadowhall and Sheffield would benefit from the introduction of Bus Rapid Transit North?" what should they be asking? Perhaps something like "What would be the best use of any extra money in public transport?" Answers on a Post Quick Reply.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Good comments, thanks. So, instead of "do you think Rotherham, Meadowhall and Sheffield would benefit from the introduction of Bus Rapid Transit North?" what should they be asking? Perhaps something like "What would be the best use of any extra money in public transport?" Answers on a Post Quick Reply.... It's not "extra money" as you put it. These are major schemes (ie over £5million), so the funding comes from specific bids, which have to be approved at regional (Yorkshire & The Humber)and national level. The Department for Transport need to see a very detailed business case which shows a good benefit / cost ratio before they will approve any such scheme. Any funding which is forthcoming is specific to that project and is not transferrable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Scarlet Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I know that the BRT scheme might be promoted as a 'stop-gap' until we can get tram funding and permissions, but if it goes ahead it will destroy the case for tram extensions in this area, and put them back by years. Everybody should be against this proposal, and demand that Sheffield gets the transport investment it deserves.Which is why there should be no cheapo bus scheme and no tram extensions. There already are buses that serve Attercliffe Road all the way to Rovvrum, there are trains that go from centre to centre. If the bus service (X78, 69, 130 and 287) were brought back to pre-First state there would be no need spend millions. They did and the Government turned them down. Government said go away and look at bus based alternatives because we think they offer better value for money. Hence the BRT proposals. At one point or another the Government will simply have to stop being a bunch of pratts. Once everything they say yes to is turned down in surveys and all the comments state they want the refused scheme they'll have little choice than to remove their fingers from the dark side of the moon and get some work done.Has anyone seen/commented on the proposed Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) scheme between Sheffield and Rotherham? It's the "Question for July 2009" on SYPTE's website travelsouthyorkshire (DOT) com/travel_information/Tell+us+what+you+think ... http://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/travel_information/Tell+us+what+you+think and http://participate.futurate.com/view_form.php?id=770 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJC Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I take the point (Planner1) but I was just casually wondering what other people's priorities would be for improvements - given that these ideas must originate somewhere, presumably in theory in public demand. I havent taken the opportunity to comment yet to SYPTE but I intend to, and hope to think about responses here as I do make my mind up. I patricularly agree with "Old bloke" above: "What a loaded question! It would take a spectacular balls-up for the new bus system not to benefit these areas." In that spirit I was asking what would others priorities be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sova Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I take the point (Planner1) but I was just casually wondering what other people's priorities would be for improvements - given that these ideas must originate somewhere, presumably in theory in public demand. Definitely the question should be 'what are your transport priorities'. But SYPTE probably ask this question a lot in various ways and places. They already know what people want, and I'm guessing it's more public transport, lower fares, and a better service. Transit systems like trams are the favored solution in the rest of Europe, and cities in England have been trying to follow this. But Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield, even Manchester for a time, all had bids to build or extend tram systems turned down. As Planner1 mentioned, these bus schemes originate from the DfT proposing them as the best in terms of cost/benefit, and an alternative to trams. But the DfT gets to set the terms by which it assesses proposals, and is free to skew the process whichever way it wants. BRT schemes are generally much cheaper than trams, and I guess they like to be cheap to save money. However, these are probably false savings, as fewer people are willing to ride on buses than trams or trains, and calling it a 'Bus Rapid Transport' scheme won't fool them. Also, as a separate mode of transport, it will (probably) have different ticketing and stations, making it less likely people will use it to connect with existing trams. I'm not wholly against BRT schemes, as they've worked well in some areas, particularly South America. But it's a particular mix of high population density, wide roads (to create dedicated bus lanes), and lack of capital to build a better system, that makes them worthwhile. The only BRT I've ridden is the Silver Line in Boston, which is what I think these will be like. A cheaper replacement for a light rail/tram system, and which frequently gets caught up in the normal traffic of the city. Yet its existence means that a transport need has been 'filled' and can be safely ignored, which is even worse in this country due to the disconnect between the DfT and local government. If I was being honest and evenhanded, I would say that while BRT North is a bad idea compared with a (not too expensive) tram extension, BRT South will probably provide a reasonably new service and the tram alternative would be much more expensive. But of course, I feel that the government should invest properly in public transport systems, and make the money available for all cities over a certain size to construct a tram or light rail system. Which is why there should be no cheapo bus scheme and no tram extensions. There already are buses that serve Attercliffe Road all the way to Rovvrum, there are trains that go from centre to centre. So you think all public transport can be provided by bus or by train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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