Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) scheme Sheffield-Rotherham?

[Captain_Scarlet]

Definitely the question should be 'what are your transport priorities'. But SYPTE probably ask this question a lot in various ways and places. They already know what people want, and I'm guessing it's more public transport, lower fares, and a better service. Transit systems like trams are the favoured solution in the rest of Europe and cities in England have been trying to follow this. Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield, even Manchester for a time, all had bids to build or extend tram systems turned down.

Which is a great shame, as you've said, public appears to back proper, long term solutions whilst the government is being cheap and looking for cheap alternatives with short term benefits (if any).

As Planner1 mentioned, these bus schemes originate from the DfT proposing them as the best in terms of cost/benefit, and an alternative to trams. But the DfT gets to set the terms by which it assesses proposals, and is free to skew the process whichever way it wants. BRT schemes are generally much cheaper than trams, and I guess they like to be cheap to save money. However, these are probably false savings, as fewer people are willing to ride on buses than trams or trains, and calling it a 'Bus Rapid Transport' scheme won't fool them. Also, as a separate mode of transport, it will (probably) have different ticketing and stations, making it less likely people will use it to connect with existing trams.

With a bit of luck once consultation results are known and the project is deemed to be unpopular, SYPTE can go back to the government tell them no one wants it. Whether to have BRT or not I would rather see nothing done in that respect at all. It is better not to be lumbered with a dinosaur than to live with it only to wish we could go back. Much, much better to stay one step behind than go for a cheap alternative, these things cost money and the road works are inconvenient, it is best to impose these constraints if something good comes out of it than a giant bus lane with ugly and uncomfortable slinky buses between two towns that already have excellent transport and road ties.

I'm not wholly against BRT schemes, as they've worked well in some areas, particularly South America. But it's a particular mix of high population density, wide roads (to create dedicated bus lanes), and lack of capital to build a better system, that makes them worthwhile. The only BRT I've ridden is the Silver Line in Boston, which is what I think these will be like. A cheaper replacement for a light rail/tram system, and which frequently gets caught up in the normal traffic of the city. Yet its existence means that a transport need has been 'filled' and can be safely ignored, which is even worse in this country due to the disconnect between the DfT and local government. If I was being honest and evenhanded, I would say that while BRT North is a bad idea compared with a (not too expensive) tram extension, BRT South will probably provide a reasonably new service and the tram alternative would be much more expensive. But of course, I feel that the government should invest properly in public transport systems, and make the money available for all cities over a certain size to construct a tram or light rail system.

While you make a constructive point you do mention it works well in countries and cities where funding isn't available, European cities with similar size, population and lifestyles have elected to do the right thing and get a good transport infrastructure built. Some others, however, weren;t so lucky; I'm thinking about Caen and Clermont Ferrand which now have an unpopular tram on wheels system. If it's cheap then it's cheap. If you're doing something, do it right. Repair and replacement is dearer than just doing it right in the first place.

So you think all public transport can be provided by bus or by train?

I was answering to the specific question of Sheffield-(Meadowhall-)Rotherham so yes I do.

If you want a broader answer I think that if public transport is necessary, it should be provided by tram and train preferably and only by bus when not appropriate to run a tram line or if the location is isolated just as it was until 08/11/60 with brilliance. Most of Sheffield should be served by tram and let buses go to bus heaven. BRTs have not place anywhere, the sheer nature of them make them undesirable, traditional buses have the advantage of vaguely integrating with normal traffic.

[silverknight]

Anyone for a trolley BUS instead. The PTE did have one built and tested in Doncaster a few years back however I have never seen what the results of the test programme were.

[Sova]

I was answering to the specific question of Sheffield-(Meadowhall-)Rotherham so yes I do.

If you want a broader answer I think that if public transport is necessary, it should be provided by tram and train preferably and only by bus when not appropriate to run a tram line or if the location is isolated just as it was until 08/11/60 with brilliance. Most of Sheffield should be served by tram and let buses go to bus heaven. BRTs have not place anywhere, the sheer nature of them make them undesirable, traditional buses have the advantage of vaguely integrating with normal traffic.

 

Ah, forgive me on this point, as I thought you were answering for all public transport, and not just this scheme. I'm sorry for misrepresenting you.

 

I'll probably reply to your other points later, on in another thread (as it seems there is another).

[Tyranna]

Interesting debate, this; the main reason for looking at a bus-based Rapid Transit system to link Sheffield to Rotherham is that it is a cheaper (and much quicker to implement) alternative to Light Rail. One way in which it could be used is as a 'stepping-stone' to Light Rail; set up a dedicated busway and connecting bus lanes and when the money is available, upgrade it into a Light Rail Corridor. This was the way in which Dublin, the Irish capital started addressing its chronic congestion problems with improved Public Transport in the 1990's; it created 'Quality Bus Corridors' modelled on a scheme in Graz, Austria, by creating bus lanes and even sections of bus-only road and entrances/exits from motorways, and in turn over the last 10 years, some of these 'QBC' Bus routes have been superseeded by the first of the routes in the new LUAS Light Rail Network. Further LUAS Routes are now being built to replace 'QBC' bus routes in the north of the city, and also the construction of a 'Metro' network has just been started, although the first route on that line will not be open for another 5 years...

 

Here in Sheffield, I think a 'Bus Rapid Transit' busway would be an excellent idea to link Rotherham; ideally, it should link outlying areas such as Brinsworth and Tinsley with resdiential areas to improve work access, also it should link Rotherham rail/bus stations with the business park at Rawmarsh, and the currently disused rail station at Masborough, which could be reopened as a 'park and ride' station for Cross-Country and E. Midlands Train services.

 

 

I'm not wholly against BRT schemes, as they've worked well in some areas, particularly South America. But it's a particular mix of high population density, wide roads (to create dedicated bus lanes), and lack of capital to build a better system, that makes them worthwhile. The only BRT I've ridden is the Silver Line in Boston, which is what I think these will be like. A cheaper replacement for a light rail/tram system, and which frequently gets caught up in the normal traffic of the city. .....while BRT North is a bad idea compared with a (not too expensive) tram extension, BRT South will probably provide a reasonably new service and the tram alternative would be much more expensive. But of course, I feel that the government should invest properly in public transport systems, and make the money available for all cities over a certain size to construct a tram or light rail system.

QUOTE]

 

Another example of a small city I know of, where Light Rail has been proposed as one idea for transport improvement, is GALWAY in Ireland. However, due to the relatively small size of the city and the lack of former rail routes to re-use as Light Rail Lines, the best solution would be a Trolleybus network, including some bus-only sections of road, and bus-only lanes on the city's new ring-road, as well as interchange with the city's central Rail Station.