An observation from a non-Sheffielder

[spinac]

If you judge a city ...

 

But judge it on other things and it's a big city.

 

I wan't judging other than commenting on the statistic that Sheffield is 4th largest city by population.

 

It's a dodgy stat ... in the sense that on its own, it doesn't tell the whole story.

Edited August 18, 2009 by spinac
addition - my explanation of "dodgy"

[Starquake]

I wan't judging other than commenting on the statistic that Sheffield is 4th largest city by population.

 

It's a dodgy stat.

 

You've just contradicted yourself. Based on purely the population it is what it is. Judge it by tall buildings, 8 lane motorway ring roads and never ending urban sprawl and it might not appear that big.

 

There is nothing dodgy about that stat - it's a fact.

There's nothing dodgy about it being the 9th largest urban conurbation, it's also a fact.

 

So you must be judging it's size on something other then it's population when comparing it to other places, which is what I went on to explain in my previous post.

[kscott2]

You've just contradicted yourself. Based on purely the population it is what it is. Judge it by tall buildings, 8 lane motorway ring roads and never ending urban sprawl and it might not appear that big.

 

 

well said paul

[six45ive]

I've lived in and travelled to many parts this country. When I'm told Sheffield is 4th largest city (which I have been many times) there's a little alarm bell that goes off in my head. That little alarm that says caution, falsehood, lies, no way, BS!

 

Why when the facts, which you acknowledge are true in your statement below, say that Sheffield is the 4th largest city.

 

 

I've researched the stat and discovered that yes Sheffield is indeed the 4th largest city by population. I've also discovered that Sheffield is the 9th largest urban region by population when you look at the wider urban area beyond the city's bounderies.

 

I've just corrected this piece of your statement.

 

When you travel from one city to another you start to get the feel for that city when the green fields disappear and the urban development begins. When you get to the heart of the city you look around and get a gut feel for the size of the city by the size of the buildings, the newness of the architecture, the number of busy shops bars and restaurants etc.

 

Getting a feel for a city is different from the fact of what a city is.

 

Any city centre is supported by its surrounding area. Because Shefield doesn't have the population in the surrounding area, it means Shefield City Centre isn't as thriving as other cities that do have bigger populations in the surrounding areas.

 

No argument there. Very much one of Sheffield's plus points.

 

I'm acknowledging that Shefield is both 4th largest and 9th largest all depending upon how you look at it. If you insist on only looking at hte truth from one angle and then insisting to others that this is the only truth, it makes you look a little silly.

 

4th largest and 9th largest what? Either you're talking about Sheffield being the 4th largest city or the Sheffield wider urban area which includes parts outside the city bounderies being the 9th largest which is basically Sheffield and a little bit more outside of the city. Both are true but as we don't elect MPs or councillors that are outside of the city's bounderies then when we talk about Sheffield it's about the city only as run by SCC and represented by Sheffield MPs which is the 4th largest with a population of 530,000.

It's not difficult to understand.

[spinac]

You've just contradicted yourself. Based on purely the population it is what it is. Judge it by tall buildings, 8 lane motorway ring roads and never ending urban sprawl and it might not appear that big.

 

There is nothing dodgy about that stat - it's a fact.

There's nothing dodgy about it being the 9th largest urban conurbation, it's also a fact.

 

So you must be judging it's size on something other then it's population when comparing it to other places, which is what I went on to explain in my previous post.

 

I wasn't making a judgement on whether big is good or bad.

 

I was questioning the truth of the statement that Sheffield is the 4th largest city by population.

 

From experience that didn't seem to be true. What is the truth? Well it depends how you measure it.

[six45ive]

I wasn't making a judgement on whether big is good or bad.

 

I was questioning the truth of the statement that Sheffield is the 4th largest city by population.

 

From experience that didn't seem to be true. What is the truth? Well it depends how you measure it.

 

How would you measure it? How do you define a city?

[Starquake]

 

I was questioning the truth of the statement that Sheffield is the 4th largest city by population.

 

From experience that didn't seem to be true. What is the truth? Well it depends how you measure it.

 

Yes and if you define a city and then measure it's population, then the population of Sheffield is the 4th biggest city. Nothing more nothing less. That's why it's quoted as 'city' so people know what is being measured.

[spinac]

It's not difficult to understand.

 

I do now ... it's both 4th and 9th largest, depending upon how you measure it! Facts! I don't want to lose friends over it which is what I nearly did last Friday.

[spinac]

Yes and if you define a city and then measure it's population, then the population of Sheffield is the 4th biggest city. Nothing more nothing less. That's why it's quoted as 'city' so people know what is being measured.

 

What humans experience of a city doesn't end where political contituencies end. When I travel in and out of cities I've no idea where one ward ends and another begins. I've no idea where one postcode ends and another begins. When I cycle out of Sheffield its amazing how quickly the countryside begins. This is a good thing. Now either Sheffield has some tardis like quality we've not discussed or maybe it's not the 4th biggest city in the country ...

[Starquake]

Right - i've bored of this sport now.

 

What you are trying to say is that a city is a bad definition of how big a place is or feels in a physical sense and only tells part of the story, and that the area that Sheffield is in doesn't feel as big as the area that other cities are in (even if they are smaller when constrained to their city boundaries).

 

We know this.