DaBouncer Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 How did I know YOUR response was a retort to mine. Well it's not bull**** ... it's fact mate. A gay night was setup (as you well know) at Takapuna just one day a week, each and every week for the gay population of Sheffield. It hardly received any trade from the Sheffield Gay community and the bar is a damn site better than the only city centre gay bar Dempsey's. So much so that the night just ended up becoming a straight night with one or two gay clientel. People didn't want it even though some people screamed for it... who's fault is that? If you can't get enough trade to fill one night (just one measily night) a week then whoever opened up a gay bar in the centre of sheffield (like west street or division street) would see their overheads wuickly outweighing there income from trade... FACT! I wouldn't put my money into such a venture! Look at the facts... if Dempseys was that busy and making enough money, they'd have moved premesis a long time ago and made it more upmarket. The Cossack (Sheffield previous main gay bar) closed down! AVIT Bar... erm.... 4 nights a week it's empty ALL night! They only survive because they're in an industrial area surrounded by factories and thus have very cheap overheads. Do some market research and you'd quickly learn this I'm afraid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richynomates Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hey CheapNnasty - don't be put off by DaBouncer's negative attitude towards a gay venue - we desperately need one! and none of these pay-as-you-go dressed-to-the-nines places; just your average bar, nicely decorated with background music, nice furnishings and (preferably) good looking staff!! it is true that there have been several failed attempts, but the lack of venue doesn't mean that we'll settle for any old tat! i worked in a city centre bar that had an 'unofficial' gay night - and it was always quite busy. there were no dress codes, door charges or deafening music, just an an above average number of request for pina coladas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by Hook Crystal? did I say cattlemarket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by richynomates Hey CheapNnasty - don't be put off by DaBouncer's negative attitude towards a gay venue - we desperately need one! and none of these pay-as-you-go dressed-to-the-nines places; just your average bar, nicely decorated with background music, nice furnishings and (preferably) good looking staff!! it is true that there have been several failed attempts, but the lack of venue doesn't mean that we'll settle for any old tat! i worked in a city centre bar that had an 'unofficial' gay night - and it was always quite busy. there were no dress codes, door charges or deafening music, just an an above average number of request for pina coladas! the point os that they DONT make money. I'm sure a new bar opening would strive to do that. In order to make a gay bar profitable you have to make it such a good bar that it attracts a lot of straight people as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfitsboy Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by DaBouncer How did I know YOUR response was a retort to mine. Well it's not bull**** ... it's fact mate. A gay night was setup (as you well know) at Takapuna just one day a week, each and every week for the gay population of Sheffield. It hardly received any trade from the Sheffield Gay community and the bar is a damn site better than the only city centre gay bar Dempsey's. So much so that the night just ended up becoming a straight night with one or two gay clientel. People didn't want it even though some people screamed for it... who's fault is that? If you can't get enough trade to fill one night (just one measily night) a week then whoever opened up a gay bar in the centre of sheffield (like west street or division street) would see their overheads wuickly outweighing there income from trade... FACT! I wouldn't put my money into such a venture! Look at the facts... if Dempseys was that busy and making enough money, they'd have moved premesis a long time ago and made it more upmarket. The Cossack (Sheffield previous main gay bar) closed down! AVIT Bar... erm.... 4 nights a week it's empty ALL night! They only survive because they're in an industrial area surrounded by factories and thus have very cheap overheads. Do some market research and you'd quickly learn this I'm afraid! The formula with VIP at Takapuna just wasn’t right, this has been debated in another thread. The Cossack was a thriving success until it was taken over by the management from Planet, it was they who run it, into the ground this is a well-known fact. AVIT Bar suffers from it's licence and location, who the hell wants to socialise and drink in an industrial rundown part of the city like Attercliffe! Dempsey’s is making a very health turnover believe it or not and Climax is the University of Sheffield’s most popular student night at the Foundry. Your theory about the lack of market in Sheffield for a new gay bar is absolute rubbish in my opinion. If a pub is poorly managed and its not giving its customers what they want, where they want it will never be a success, it as simply as that. How many straight pubs, clubs, nights got bust in Sheffield, would you apply the same lack of market theory to these failures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lea1979 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 how about just having somewhere with a nice beer garden, a chill out place where you don't have to shout to have a conversation and make it over 21's and not somewhere people go to get hammered but just to sit and socialise. oh dear. am showing my age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonJParr Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 DaBouncers point about gay bars from a business perspective seems to make sense. By labeling the establishment a 'gay bar' they will inevitably drive some heterosexual customers away. A business model based predominantly on a particular demographic is proven to often fail. Perhaps this provides the basis for other gay-oriented ventures in Sheffield having failed. It would make sense. Nobody denies that there isn't a market - it's just not a market large enough to sustain a business and enable it to thrive. Furthermore, with a shift in attitude towards homosexuality (ie. it is becoming more socially acceptable) taking place why do people still feel the need for 'gay bars'? Surely if we are trying to build an inclusive society where everybody feels safe and valued regardless of their gender, sexuality or ethnicity there is no need for these establishments? Furthermore, doesn't their continued existence only serve to encourage non-integration more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfitsboy Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by JonJParr DaBouncers point about gay bars from a business perspective seems to make sense. By labeling the establishment a 'gay bar' they will inevitably drive some heterosexual customers away. A business model based predominantly on a particular demographic is proven to often fail. Perhaps this provides the basis for other gay-oriented ventures in Sheffield having failed. It would make sense. Nobody denies that there isn't a market - it's just not a market large enough to sustain a business and enable it to thrive. Furthermore, with a shift in attitude towards homosexuality (ie. it is becoming more socially acceptable) taking place why do people still feel the need for 'gay bars'? Surely if we are trying to build an inclusive society where everybody feels safe and valued regardless of their gender, sexuality or ethnicity there is no need for these establishments? Furthermore, doesn't their continued existence only serve to encourage non-integration more? Please see this thread, many have the points you have made have been answered already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by skyfitsboy The formula with VIP at Takapuna just wasn’t right, this has been debated in another thread. The Cossack was a thriving success until it was taken over by the management from Planet, it was they who run it, into the ground this is a well-known fact. AVIT Bar suffers from it's licence and location, who the hell wants to socialise and drink in an industrial rundown part of the city like Attercliffe! Dempsey’s is making a very health turnover believe it or not and Climax is the University of Sheffield’s most popular student night at the Foundry. Your theory about the lack of market in Sheffield for a new gay bar is absolute rubbish in my opinion. If a pub is poorly managed and its not giving its customers what they want, where they want it will never be a success, it as simply as that. How many straight pubs, clubs, nights got bust in Sheffield, would you apply the same lack of market theory to these failures? If you're soooooo confident then put your money where your mouth is and start your own! Get a business plan together and open the bar. Where would you put it? There is no "gay village" in Sheffield which is exactly my point. The market isn't there because sheffield doesn't have a viable location to cause a thriving market. I'm not saying there isn't enough gay people in sheffield, but they're not going to go out night after night to the same place now are they... there is after all only so much you can take. When VIP launched as a gay night the model was an excellent one based on the wants and requirements of the gay public in sheffield... they just failed to pull themselves away from Leeds and Dempseys. As a promotor I can guarantee hands down (and I would put money on it) that if you opened a gay bar in the centre of Sheffield... you would either see it's demise completely... or change to a "gay friendly" establishment within 12 months. Like I say... put your money where your mouth is and stop shouting and start doing.... good luck convincing a bank manager to lend you the cash with a business model that would very quickly start to crack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richynomates Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by JonJParr DaBouncers point about gay bars from a business perspective seems to make sense. By labeling the establishment a 'gay bar' they will inevitably drive some heterosexual customers away. A business model based predominantly on a particular demographic is proven to often fail. Perhaps this provides the basis for other gay-oriented ventures in Sheffield having failed. It would make sense. But using the above post that aiming at a particular segment will result in failure, that would also mean that 'student' bars, 'irish' bars, '80s bars' etc etc etc would fail, as they are themed towards one particular segment. the fact is, you don't have to be a student to go to a student bar or gay to go to a gay bar. they are there primarily for their chosen group, but anyone can (and does) go. and i think driving away of some hetrosexual males will be more than compensated by the attracting of yound groups of females, who tend to frequent gay bars in ever increasing numbers. there is no case for saying that a bar aimed towards gay people is more likely to fail because of this one single issue. i've lived in a town with a 13,725 population (2001 census) and it manages to support a full time central gay bar with no obvious financial concerns. i think a gay bar is as viable as any other segment orientated operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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