JonJParr Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by skyfitsboy Please see this thread, many have the points you have made have been answered already. I've had a quick scim through the thread but as yet, I'm still unconvinced that the market is large enough to sustain a new venture. Furthermore, the thread doesn't seem to answer my point about continued segregatory practice; instead you speak of "exclusivity" and a policy of zero tolerance on "homophobic attitudes". To me segregation and exclusivity promote the same ideal - separatism. It's a vicious circle really, promote exclusivity and segregation and you only further ensconce homophobia. Just a thought. I've got no problems with a gay couple sitting at the next table to me in a bar. I might object if they were groping each other, "swapping spit" (stealing your phrase Nick2!) or performing other leud acts. But then, I'd object if a heterosexual couple were doing that also. If a 'gay bar' endorses this sort of behaviour as acceptable then it only further perpetrates the stereotypical view of a 'gay ghetto'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 It's nothing to do with all the areas mentioned nor can it be compared with a town housing a full time gay bar (please note that you only mentuioned a gay bar... not many) with less than 20000 population. Sheffield is a weird place for night life, given it's size you would have thought the night life would have been better but it's not and the factors are 2 fold. 1) Market - believe it or not the market fluctuated greatly due to the success of close towns such as Leeds and Manchester. People find it just as easy to club in these places as in Sheffield so that's what a vast amount do. 2) Sheffield City Council overheads and licencing. Given the fact only few bars have opening past 1am (currently only Takapuna has a 2.30am licence) it does no possitive work to Sheffield city night life. Skyfitboy you stated in the thread you mentioned that VIP @ Takapuna wasn't ideal because of the night it was on and people have to get up for work. Tell me then, how is a full time gay bar in the centre supposed to survive on just weekend occupancy? With Sheffield overheads for town centre locations it wouldn't. You have some involvement with Central Fire Station Bar dont you Richy? Why not get together with Skyfitsboy and start a revolution and open this fully self sustaining gay bar in Sheffield city centre (i.e. division street/ devonshire street / west street). you have bar knowledge and skyfitsboy is obviously clued up with the gay community to know that it would be a success that your venture should work Skyfitboy... you know that thread you linked to which is titled: Someone with loadsa money PLEASE open a gay bar in Sheffield!!, that' exactly what you'd need to make it work and sustain your overheads during the mid-weekly losses untuil the weekend. Sorry... but it's the truth... like it or lump it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfitsboy Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by DaBouncer If you're soooooo confident then put your money where your mouth is and start your own! Get a business plan together and open the bar. Where would you put it? There is no "gay village" in Sheffield which is exactly my point. The market isn't there because sheffield doesn't have a viable location to cause a thriving market. I'm not saying there isn't enough gay people in sheffield, but they're not going to go out night after night to the same place now are they... there is after all only so much you can take. When VIP launched as a gay night the model was an excellent one based on the wants and requirements of the gay public in sheffield... they just failed to pull themselves away from Leeds and Dempseys. As a promotor I can guarantee hands down (and I would put money on it) that if you opened a gay bar in the centre of Sheffield... you would either see it's demise completely... or change to a "gay friendly" establishment within 12 months. Like I say... put your money where your mouth is and stop shouting and start doing.... good luck convincing a bank manager to lend you the cash with a business model that would very quickly start to crack! Dabouncer, I really have no ambition to open a gay or straight bar in Sheffield or anywhere else for that matter, so your shouting at the wrong person. I don't need to go out and put my money where my mouth is, thank you very much:rant: Some of your comments really make me laugh though. How would a city estabilish a gay village if no business took the initial step of opening the first bar in the city and why does there have to be a village in the first place for a new place to be a success? Your comment questioning whether or not a gay bar in town would be able to pull in customers night after night, well straight bars and Dempseys manage to do it don't they?! The model for VIP was promising but face it they choose the wrong venue and screwed it up, even the name VIP sounds tacky and uninviting. Your name rings a bell wasn't you involved with the launch of VIP, is that why you are so bitter about the gay scene in Sheffield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Well we're sorry you don't like the name, maybe I should have gone for something along the lines of Moist and Climax then... I know Juices or Lube this is ibviouasly what was missing. And yes I am involved with VIP (as well as Damo who's a Sheffield Forumer and Sparklesista). We created VIP initially at the request of people crying out for gay bars and gay nights in Sheffield. We built but they didn't come... why? Well that's the million dollar question. The venue... by your own admission Takapuna is an excellent venue (you have said this many times before so why NOW in THIS thread is it suddenly not). The problem you have stated is that it's on a week night. Well we are still here and still going strong but the night caters for a predominently straight crowd these days because that's who enjoy the night. I have no mallice towards the gay community in Sheffield... I enjoyed it when they were coming down and you seem to be misunderstanding me. Gay nights are great (I've happilybeen to climax) there's no trouble and a good atmosphere. However the market (no matter which way you slice it) isn't there not to sustain a full time gay bar. Don't open a gay club then... but please stop asking others to waste their hard earned (borrowed even ) money doing so when all that will happen is that it'll go straight down the swanny. Like I say I have no mallice and would welcome and love to see a selection of full/part time gay bars/nights emerge in Sheffield, but the FACT is... they wouldn't flourish. Prove me wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richynomates Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 i have no involement in any bar in sheffield, and neither do i want to have. i don't understand how your only arguement is to tell people who don't want to, to open a bar!! I don't have any intention of opening a bar, and i think skyfitsboy has said the same. cheapNnasty is asking the question and is the one who wants to open a bar. why not put your bad experiences to good use and inform cheapNnasty of any advice you can give him so as not to make the same mistakes that you did. i seem to remember a previous posting made by DaBouncer (on a different thread) saying that they carried out market research, etc, etc, and lauched the ill-fated VIP night. Obviously, the market must be there for him to have done it in the first place, and i think he may be a good source of help. Maybe the same mistakes won't happen twice then. If you decide against a gaybar cheap, tell us what the winning "type" will be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 You seem to be taking things too personal and the wrong way. How is VIP ill fated when it's still going strong? It just isn't catering to a total gay clientel anymore... it's now a more maintstream (for want of a better word) night. My apologies if for assuming you have anything to do with a bar... I assumed (I will remember not to do that again) you had something to do with The Central Fire Station. I only suggested you ghuys opening a bar of your own because you guys seem to shout the loudest about how much call for a full time central gay bar there is in Sheffield. Well I can promise you there is not... not from my experience anyway! Yes we did market research and it seemed to say to us that a night would be great. People shouting from the rooftops at who much they wanted one. However when it cam down to it, they didn't want it as bad as they thought. They asked for a nice bar... we gave them a nice bar, they asked for good music which wasn't stereo typical gay cheesy music (not my words) so we did that, they asked for central location, we gave that and it still didn't work as a gay night. Why? Door charge? Well we asked if people would still come for a small door charge to cover costs of these requirements and it was a yes, but still no. All I can say is from personal experience that there is no market in Sheffield for a full time gay bar in the city centre. There may be enough people to fill it, but with overheads, doorcharges, and the fact it's not on a gay street like canal street (which seems to work in most other cities) then the likelyhood is that the night/bar would fail as a gay bar. My opinion (and others) take it or leave it... do what you will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfitsboy Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Originally posted by DaBouncer Well we're sorry you don't like the name, maybe I should have gone for something along the lines of Moist and Climax then... I know Juices or Lube this is ibviouasly what was missing. I'm quite found of edible names like Fudge, Bourbon, Cream and fluid names like Tequila, but not overtly sexual cheesy names like Moist or Lube lol! Takapuna has a great interior, but just lacks something atmosphere and energy, I can't explain it, been several times over the past few years and always felt like i can;t wait to move on to somewhere abit more lively. The bar staff are great though in Takapuna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauramottram Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 i think an open-mike venue sounds good. however itd be good if it was aimed at students AND ex-students. i think it needs more nice bars in town that doesnt attract yocals, eg crystal and now revolution are nice but full of townies. theres a market for a funky type bar to attract the students AND esp the ex-students. im in drinking limbo as i dont wanna be going out with townies but im too old for itsascreams and varsitys. somewhere like browns in leeds or notty (i think they are building one in the former education building so they must feel there is a market there). this also is a market with a bit of cash, we want the student lifestyle but most earn decent graduate money to have it... i dont know if this helps tho, as everyone in this thread wants different types of pubs/bars! p.s. no need for gay bar - as people have pointed out theres not much of a 'community' here but the open mic has potential to be good, as long as its done right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THCAyle Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 if only we lived in amsterdam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty_78 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 How about a 90's themed bar? There are no end of 80's bars popping up but you never really get anywhere that plays claasic 90's tracks. I'm sure there would be a good market for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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