The Film JFK - and conspiracy theories

[HeadingNorth]

...the force being so powerful it took half of the skull away and part of the brain....study the film a little more closely and you will see how the impact threw him back in the seat...so shot from the front and not behind.

 

 

Bullets don't work like that. A bullet is a very small, very fast-moving object, and it slides through the bone and into the skull without making any noticeable difference to the momentum of the body. However, it can't get out so easily, and when it exits on the other side it pulls with it a lot of the gunk that used to think.*

 

This rapidly-exiting brain matter on one side forces, due to the law of conservation of momentum, the remaining bits of the skull to be thrown violently in the other direction. So if his head was thrown backwards, he must have been shot from behind.

 

* Much though I'd love to take credit for this wonderful phrase, I can't; it was written by Penn and Teller, who demonstrated this principle very adeptly by shooting watermelons with high-powered rifles. The watermelon always leaps towards the rifle, not away from it.

 

 

Of course, if you want to expand the conspiracy to include Sir Isaac Newton, and claim he only wrote the Principia Mathematica in 1687 so that it would offer a plausible explanation to hide the real killers nearly three hundred years later...

[[Matt]]

A conspiracy is when two or more persons knowingly plan a criminal act.

The assassination of President Kennedy was carried out by two,possibly three marksmen.

The rub of course is that Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT one of the marksmen.

It was impossible for him to get three shots off in around 7 seconds from the book depository window...upon a moving target...and most certainly not with the so called murder weapon later produced.,.and more to point ..the angle was all wrong.

The murder of JFK was therefore a conspiracy..............The first shot hit JFK in the throat and the film actually is blocked out by the lampost...at the point where he clutches his throat...no one can tell at this point whether the shot came from the front or the rear....this was the so called "magic bullet"

If the first shot was not fatal...the second most certainly was.....this came from the front of the car at an angle...the force being so powerful it took half of the skull away and part of the brain....study the film a little more closely and you will see how the impact threw him back in the seat...so shot from the front and not behind.

The shots were timed to near perfection...was there a third shooter....but a shot going off simultaneously with a second shot would give rise to and confuse the listening and watching public.

So yes a conspiracy but not in the sense of the general meaning....who was behind it, we may never know,but Lee Harvey Oswald was not the man.

Jack Ruby killed him, not to shut him up but as a warning to the other conspirators.

The Federal Government will release the facts of November 1963 around 2060...and by that time it wont matter to any people in this forum as to whom actually killed JFK

I love how everyone becomes a total physics expert when trying to come up with an explanation where any type of physics involved at the cost of nearly always ballsing their facts up. Even a cursory glance on google and youtube will come up with something that pretty much blows your claims out of the water.... Watch Penn and Teller demonstrate the "Jet effect" of a bullet impact that would have meant someone shot in the head will have their head jerk towards the shot due to simple physics and not the hollywood physics you've been plied with by watching too many ****ty action films....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHjH3X311XI

[Mantaspook]

Regarding the points raised in Wolfdancer's post.

 

A conspiracy is when two or more persons knowingly plan a criminal act. The assassination of President Kennedy was carried out by two,possibly three marksmen.

 

The facts don't support this theory, bullet entry & exit wounds, and bullet fragments recovered from the scene indicate one gun, fired from the rear of the motorcade.

 

The rub of course is that Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT one of the marksmen.

 

There is plenty of evidence to indicate otherwise, one of Oswald's co-workers, Buell Frazier, gave Oswald a lift to work on the morning of the assassination. He was carrying a long package that was wrapped in a brown paper sack. Oswald claimed they were curtain rods.

 

Howard Brennan was in front of the Texas Book depository and saw a man that fitted Oswald's description on the fifth floor, Brennan is visible in the Zapruder film and it was established he was 93 feet away from the snipers nest.

 

Brennen's testimony is that he looked up after the first shot and saw the man on the fifth floor fire two more shots.

 

Oswald then escaped down the back stairwell and walked across the second floor, down a front stairwell and out of the front of the building, he had enough time to do this, two witnesses who knew Oswald, Supervisor Roy Truly and Mrs Robert Reid, testified that they saw Oswald just minutes after the shooting.

 

A thorough search of the book depository lead to the discovery of the rifle, interestingly no curtain rods were found. A brown paper sack was found at the rear of the sniper's nest, when the FBI subjected the bag to silver nitrate they discovered Oswald's fingerprints & palm print on the bag, additionally Oswald's left palm print was found on the box the assassin sat on whilst waiting for the motorcade to pass, the police forensic officer described this print as 'fresh and important'. Microscopic fibres were also found on the rifle that linked it to the blanket in Oswald's garage where he used to store it; however the blanket was a common one so the fibres couldn't be linked exclusively to that one blanket.

 

 

It was impossible for him to get three shots off in around 7 seconds from the book depository window...upon a moving target...and most certainly not with the so called murder weapon later produced

 

 

It was possible to get the shots off in this time; the most reliable timing tool to the assassination is the Zapruder film, there is strong evidence, collaborated by eye witness testimony that the first shot was fired at frame 160, the third shot that hit JFK's head was at frame 313, this translates to 8 to 8.4 seconds shooting time. This is enough time for the bolt action to be operated twice. (Remember, the first bullet was already in the chamber.)

 

Furthermore, I've seen a documentary where the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle used by Oswald is 'dry fired' by a detective on screen twice and he easily did it within 8 seconds, he admitted he could have done it even faster if he had practised with the bolt, witnesses notably Oswald's wife, say he did practice a lot until the bolt action was very slick.

 

Oswald was an ex-marine, despite the misinformation about his marksmanship skills he was trained to hit a man sized target at 100 metres WITHOUT A TELESCOPIC SIGHT.

 

The Mannlicher-Carcano rifle recovered from the depository had a 4X telescopic sight, to Oswald, the target would have appeared to have been 25 metres away, well within his capability.

 

.,.and more to point ..the angle was all wrong.

 

Photographs in the Warren commission's report show that a clear line of sight did exist from the 5th floor window of the book depository to the locations where the bullets struck. (As located by the Zapruder film and other photographs.)

 

Since then several computer simulations have used the Zapruder film and other sources to create a three dimensional model in which the exact locations of JFK and Governor Connally has been plotted, the computer analysis, when the wounds on both men are lined up, track back in a 'cone of probability' that centres on the 5th floor window.

 

Forensic analysis of the entry and exit wounds established that the shots also came from the rear. I'll return to this later.

 

The murder of JFK was therefore a conspiracy..............The first shot hit JFK in the throat and the film actually is blocked out by the lampost...at the point where he clutches his throat...no one can tell at this point whether the shot came from the front or the rear....this was the so called "magic bullet"

 

This is factually incorrect, the first shot missed.

 

It was fired at around frame 160, just before the presidential car passed under some trees, it is likely that the bullet struck a branch and was deflected to hit a kerb over 500ft near the triple underpass, a fragment of concrete was thrown up and wounded the face of a bystander called William Tague. The kerb that was struck was in a line between the 5th floor window and the tree.

 

The second shot hit JFK approximately 3.5 seconds later, the Warren commission had difficulty establishing the exact time as the vehicle was obscured by a road sign on the Zapruder film.

 

When the car emerges from behind the sign at frame 225 President Kennedy's right arm appears to be rising in response to a bullet wound. At frames 226-227 JFK 'clutches his hands to his throat' - this is almost certainly a neurological reflex called the 'Thorburn position' named after the physician that discovered it over a hundred years ago, it refers to a spinal injury that forces the victim's arm to jerk up into a fixed position.

 

The so-called 'magic bullet' that inflicted the injuries to the two men was found in "pristine" condition (actually it was slightly flattened) after the assassination. Critics have argued that it is impossible for the bullet to have survived virtually intact but test-firings into cadavers / dead animals do sometimes result in a virtually undamaged bullet, so it certainly is possible and not impossible like the critics claim.

 

 

If the first shot was not fatal...the second most certainly was.....this came from the front of the car at an angle...the force being so powerful it took half of the skull away and part of the brain....study the film a little more closely and you will see how the impact threw him back in the seat...so shot from the front and not behind.

 

It was actually the third bullet that hit JFK's skull. A company called Itek optical systems did a computer enhancement of the Zapruder film for a CBS documentary, Itek discovered when the bullet hit JFK his head jerked forward 2.3 inches before starting his rapid movement backwards.

 

The backward movement is the result of two factors, HeadingNorth has already covered the 'jet effect' the second one the massive discharge of neurological impulses from the injured brain shooting down the spine to every muscle in the body, with the strongest muscles in the back and the neck predominating, the body is thrown backwards.

 

As further proof of this effect there is a video of Central American troops executing a journalist as he lies face down on the ground. When he is shot in the head his back arches and his head moves backwards TOWARDS the bullet.

 

Returning to the entry and exit wounds all nine forensic pathologists on the House Select Committee's medical panel agreed that the small rear hole in the president's head was an entrance wound and the large wound on the front-right of his head was an exit wound.

 

One of the pathologists, Dr Cyril Wecht said that such a wound didn't preclude a shot also entering from the front, (ie, a bullet from the front could have passed through the exit wound of bullet no 3 that came from the rear.) However photographs show no exit wound, therefore the bullet, or fragments of it, should have been lodged in the brain. The X-rays showed no trace of this happening.

 

 

The shots were timed to near perfection...was there a third shooter....but a shot going off simultaneously with a second shot would give rise to and confuse the listening and watching public.

 

There was no physical evidence of any other bullets from another gun recovered from the crime scene. I would contend that the echoes in Dealey Plaza caused enough confusion in the crowd, including the erroneous assumption that the shots originated from the grassy knoll.

 

 

So yes a conspiracy but not in the sense of the general meaning....who was behind it, we may never know,but Lee Harvey Oswald was not the man.

 

A study of all the facts, in their proper context would enable a reasonable person to establish that the lone gunman theory is the most likely, and that Lee Harvey Oswald was that gunman. Conspiracy theorists tend to overlook or bend 'facts' or even physical laws that contradict their theory, when you look at the whole picture the holes in their arguments become clear.

 

Jack Ruby killed him, not to shut him up but as a warning to the other conspirators.

 

Jack Ruby did kill Oswald but his motivation was personal, interviews with Ruby established he didn't know Oswald before the shooting and it was a last minute 'spur of the moment' killing.

 

The Federal Government will release the facts of November 1963 around 2060...and by that time it wont matter to any people in this forum as to whom actually killed JFK

 

And the citizens of 2060 can look forward to the 'JFK assassination industry' taking selective bites of the new information to support their old theories or coming up with new ones.

 

I've read about 40 books on this subject and I never cease to be amazed at the ways authors selectively examine the evidence to support their theories, I've deliberately chosen to refute the points raised in Wolfdancer's post to illustrate how science and a proper examination of the facts can explain why, for instance, the presidents head jerked backwards. And cheers to [Matt] for the Penn & Teller Youtube link.

[Wolfdancer]

Thank you for that Mantaspook...very very informative.....

Nothing will ever convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.....

I firmly believe that certain individuals "conspired" to kill the President.......

If you stand at the kerb edge on Elm Street there is a silver star in the road...about two feet six inches from the kerb...this star is in commemoration of JFK...and represents the exact spot where he was shot...... as you stand on the kerb and look back over your left shoulder, at the book depository window from where Oswald allegedly fired the fatal shots...the first simple question that will spring to mind is ...."No way did he have a clear line of sight"...ordinary citizens say this....not "experts" in ballistics nor cadaver shooters...

The shots came from the "grassy knoll"............

The Warren commission was a total cover up and had the truth come out at the time as to the real reason behind the murder of JFK, then Americas standing on the world stage would have been destroyed forever.

For a government department to plan the death of, and then execute its very own head of state is what many people cannot get their heads around....but that is exactly what happened.

[Mantaspook]

the first simple question that will spring to mind is ...."No way did he have a clear line of sight"...ordinary citizens say this....not "experts" in ballistics nor cadaver shooters...

 

Presumably you're referring to the trees? Naturally these will have grown and would obscure a greater (or possibly different) area from 1963.

 

If you can get hold of a copy of the Warren report (the official unabridged version) have a look at page 100-103

 

Warren commission exhibit No. 889 and No. 891 are photographs taken from the sniper's nest at frame 166 & 186 - trees do partially obscure the view. Remember the first bullet was fired around frame 160 and was probably deflected by a branch.

 

Exhibit No. 893 shows the view at frame 210, the car is clearing the trees.

 

Exhibit No 895 shows frame 225 - a clear shot - It was shortly after this that the Zapruder film shows Kennedy reacting to the first bullet at frame 226-227.

 

Here is a website that purports to show the view from where Kennedy was hit back to the book depository - no date on when the photos was taken but there is a clear line of view.

 

Photos

[Harleyman]

Just another figment of imagination from the mind of "Oliver Stoned"

[Kingmaker2]

If the first shot was not fatal...the second most certainly was.....this came from the front of the car at an angle...the force being so powerful it took half of the skull away and part of the brain....study the film a little more closely and you will see how the impact threw him back in the seat...so shot from the front and not behind.

 

Hmm, there's actually no real evidence that the shot came from the front.

In fact a recent Discovery documentory has demonstrated that the fatal shot was most probably fired from the back hitting the side of the head from a height (They had a British champion marksmen shooting specially designed dummy heads with fake brain matter inside the skull).

The documemtory closely looked at the way Kennedy's brain splattered both in and out of the car.

They even interviewed the cop riding the motorcyle behind Kennedy's car, he was splattered with brain matter, he seems to concur with the documentory's findings that the fatal head shot came from behind.

[apelike]

That fatal shot took part of JFK's skull off which landed on the rear of the vehicle. Jackie Kennedy can then be seen climbing on to the back bonnet trying to get away but in close up you can see she was retrieving the fragment of skull. She was then urged to get back by the security guy. The autopsy pictures show a piece of skull missing from the middle of the back of the head (crown) and also the piece which was about 2-3 inch in size.

 

Given that evidence I would also guess that the fatal shot was from the front.

[callippo]

the movie is abysmal. Stone hasn't made a decent movie since Platoon 23 years ago. That movie and his previous one, Salvador, are the only Oliver Stone movies worth watching.