If the Conservatives win the election how high will unemployment rise?

[Rioja]

Exactly. But while they can get people bitching about who was better or worse, they get away with it.

 

Let's face it, we used to be very good at innovation and invention. This country invented railways yet today we have 86 miles of high-speed rail compared to thousands in truly civilised countries like France, Spain, Germany, Japan etc.

We are lions led by donkeys and have been for hundreds of years, but they keep feeding us propaganda about having the best coppers, army, parliament in the world when our leaders have consistently let us down by looking after their own - Labour and Tories.

 

Thats because they were willing to pay for it and at the end of the day you only get out what you are willing to put in.

[Berberis]

Who is the Marxist loony? You are British born and bred, yet distance yourself from Britain by stating that "Thatcher gave you a trouncing"? Or did you imagine that I personally allowed any jumped up gob****e to beat me down? You know nothing of me, so cannot make a judgement of this nature - I wasn't bought up in the North, I'm from the Midlands, but didn't grow up with my eyes closed imagining that everyone was having the life I was living... Open your eyes and maybe you too could notice what is under your nose! You, sir, are a fool...

 

If you don’t know who the Marxist loony was who led the miners then you obviously know less about the whole affair then you claim

[Berberis]

Uk steel production fell dramatically under the Tories, and yes it did rise later but only but from a very low base.

The UK steel industry was NOT sold off to one of Blairs mate's, Corus Plc was taken over by Tata, an Indian company who are nothing to do with Mittal who'm I presume you were referring to. Wrong as usual.

 

To re-quote what I have already said on this matter:

 

That still does not change the fact the UK steel industry has declined and been sold off under Labour. Why do you keep ignoring Labours part in all of this? The UK was producing around 19m tonnes of steel under the conservatives, compared to next to nothing today, a comparable decrease with 1970's production and 1980's production.

 

The UK steel industry died under Labour, something you are willing to ignore in a false point scoring competition. I wonder why

 

Then there is the whole Mittal Affair, in which Tony Blair accepted large contributions only weeks after an election. Mittal went on to shed 6,000 welsh steel workers jobs not long after.

 

Labour sold off your beloved industry. The conservatives tried to turn an unprofitable industry into a world market leader. Something they did. Then Labour got their hands on it again and killed it off.

[wednesday1]

To re-quote what I have already said on this matter:

 

 

 

The UK steel industry died under Labour, something you are willing to ignore in a false point scoring competition. I wonder why

 

Then there is the whole Mittal Affair, in which Tony Blair accepted large contributions only weeks after an election. Mittal went on to shed 6,000 welsh steel workers jobs not long after.

Labour sold off your beloved industry. The conservatives tried to turn an unprofitable industry into a world market leader. Something they did. Then Labour got their hands on it again and killed it off.

 

 

What are you on about (my bold) the job losses you refer to happened when Llanwern closed. Llanwern was NOTHING whatsoever to do with Mittal:loopy:

 

How somebody can continue to post on something they have demonstrated they know nothing about is beyond me.

 

The Tories privatised the industry in 1988. Once it was no longer in state control it was then vulnerable to takeover / merger by larger companies.

 

As I have stated previously the industry has continued to decline since Labour has been in power, as they have continued to follow the same industrial policy that the Tories did, that is one of no intervention. Atleast under Labour the demolition of the UK'd industrial base hasn't been deliberate.

 

The sad facts of the matter are that when the Tories took office in '79 manufacturing accounted for over 80% of GDP when they left office in '97 it had fallen to just 18%. It has declined to around 15% at present. Leaving the country unable to export itself out of recession by taking advantage of the weak pound.

[Berberis]

What are you on about (my bold) the job losses you refer to happened when Llanwern closed. Llanwern was NOTHING whatsoever to do with Mittal:loopy:

 

How somebody can continue to post on something they have demonstrated they know nothing about is beyond me.

 

The Tories privatised the industry in 1988. Once it was no longer in state control it was then vulnerable to takeover / merger by larger companies.

 

As I have stated previously the industry has continued to decline since Labour has been in power, as they have continued to follow the same industrial policy that the Tories did, that is one of no intervention. Atleast under Labour the demolition of the UK'd industrial base hasn't been deliberate.

 

The sad facts of the matter are that when the Tories took office in '79 manufacturing accounted for over 80% of GDP when they left office in '97 it had fallen to just 18%. It has declined to around 15% at present. Leaving the country unable to export itself out of recession by taking advantage of the weak pound.

 

Bad English, I didn’t mean Mittle, but the whole EU steel industry is connected. I see your point.

 

Privatisation possibly did make the Steel industry vulnerable to takeover but it was under Labour that this happened. For the period of the Conservative government, 1979 to 1997 British Steel was UK owned. Then Two years later it was swallowed by Corus, then subsequently swallowed by Tata Steel. You blame the conservatives for the loss of a national business but completely ignore Labour where at the wheel when this happened.

 

Which recession are you talking about in reference to the weak pound? The pound is at a similar level to that of the mid 90's and the early 2000's. The pound vs. the Dollar goes up and down pretty uniformly between 1.4 and 1.9 over the last 20 years.

 

You mention manufacturing but our GDP for 2008 was the second highest in the EU.

[iansheff]

Quote:

That still does not change the fact the UK steal industry has declined and been sold off under Labour. Why do you keep ignoring Labours part in all of this? The UK was producing around 19m tonnes of steel under the conservatives, compared to next to nothing today, a comparable decrease with 1970's production and 1980's production.

 

Thats the trouble in this country the steal industry is thriving.

[wednesday1]

Bad English, I didn’t mean Mittle, but the whole EU steel industry is connected. I see your point.

 

Privatisation possibly did make the Steel industry vulnerable to takeover but it was under Labour that this happened. For the period of the Conservative government, 1979 to 1997 British Steel was UK owned. Then Two years later it was swallowed by Corus, then subsequently swallowed by Tata Steel. You blame the conservatives for the loss of a national business but completely ignore Labour where at the wheel when this happened.

 

Which recession are you talking about in reference to the weak pound?

 

 

Not at all, see the last sentences of my previous post:

 

As I have stated previously the industry has continued to decline since Labour has been in power, as they have continued to follow the same industrial policy that the Tories did, that is one of no intervention. Atleast under Labour the demolition of the UK'd industrial base hasn't been deliberate.

 

The sad facts of the matter are that when the Tories took office in '79 manufacturing accounted for over 80% of GDP when they left office in '97 it had fallen to just 18%. It has declined to around 15% at present. Leaving the country unable to export itself out of recession by taking advantage of the weak pound.

 

I was refering to the current recession.

[Berberis]

Quote:

That still does not change the fact the UK steal industry has declined and been sold off under Labour. Why do you keep ignoring Labours part in all of this? The UK was producing around 19m tonnes of steel under the conservatives, compared to next to nothing today, a comparable decrease with 1970's production and 1980's production.

 

Thats the trouble in this country the steal industry is thriving.

 

haha, well spotted

[L00b]

The sad facts of the matter are that when the Tories took office in '79 manufacturing accounted for over 80% of GDP when they left office in '97 it had fallen to just 18%. It has declined to around 15% at present. Leaving the country unable to export itself out of recession by taking advantage of the weak pound.

To be fair, the UK's manufacturing sector couldn't hope to compete against India, China and developing countries (notably Brazil), based on a straightforward labour cost comparison alone, which I very much doubt any amount of UK-based scale economies could counter. As far back as 1997, or today. What was the alternative? Keep pumping ever more amounts of taxpayers' hard-earned into an increasingly uncompetitive industry? Where the UK still has the edge, and where it can keep it if steered properly, is in new/emergent technologies and innovation (including in such traditional sectors as steel production).

 

The problem, as usual and regardless of which party is at the helm, is that "innovation" makes a catchy buzzword to try and build some hope amongst the economical ruins, but "innovation" appears condemned to remain the 5th wheel of the cart where policies and development agendas are concerned, because the Gvt hasn't got the foggiest how to foster and nurture it (should be education sector, really), protect it effectively (all left to private sector/investors' initiative built on experience alone) and commercialise it at a profit (in the way the French can export their high-speed trains, nuclear plants and the like).

[Berberis]

Wednesday1, you cannot lay the entire blame for the decline in the British Steel industry at the feet of Thatcher and Majors government. The Steel output declined by about 50% from 1979 into the 80’s but then declined again by the same amount under Labour to the present miniscule amounts.