Ju-Ju Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8364421.stm More data gets sold to third parties without owners consent. I hope T-Mobile gets a huge fine for this. Data protection laws need a huge strengthening and the technology to store this data needs to be a lot better before the government even thinks about ID cards. Yes - how opportune that this news story appeared today. Wonder how long it will be before the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptigga Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Simples, in the case of the French ones: a real card proves ID, a fake one can't, and a convincing fake one is (currently still) technically impossible. You can't amend a real one (e.g. convincingly over-print a photo or text), because of some of the tech built in them: besides many other 'hidden gems' which I won't talk about (because I'd have to kill every thread reader ), they include some oxygen-or-other-activated 'self-destructing' agent, which is activated as soon as you breach the plastic coating (a bit like stolen banknotes spayed with paint) and renders the card entirely useless. Needless to say, it also works if you accidentally damage your own card, and you have to apply for a replacement (costs €25). You can't make a fake one either, because of these other 'hidden gems' (proprietary tech to the one single place in France, which manufactures all the cards). You might be able to mock one which will fool stores to buy booze when under-age, maybe even banks (they'd have to be real good, and not the kind you buy under the counter for £500, oh no), but definitely not autorities. The only way to successfully deceive all with a dodgy card (in which case the card must be legit but obtained fraudulently (through theft or other) is to engage is extensive cosmetic surgery to resemble the owner, and do that and use the card quickly before the original owner reports it lost or stolen Once it's reported stolen, central database does the rest. I'm surprised that you think that any of this is impossible. Its unlikely that the everyday person would go to these lengths to forge identity, but there's a lot of money in identity theft and criminals who can afford to pay the right people will always be able to get access either to someone who works with the proprietary tech, or to someone who has cracked it and isn't going public. It's not necessary to physically resemble the owner in order to get a legit fake card, you simply need to present the seemingly correct supporting documents as your own. Birth certificate, utility bill, bank card, etc. Criminals spend years obtaining tiny little bits of identity and putting them to one side so that they can gradually build enough to present convincing sets of documents for various identities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 really embarrassing for her. Do you know how much a passport costs? . Dragon of Ana How much will an ID card cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrence Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 How much will an ID card cost? £30 during the trial phase. £60 when widely available (£30 to have your fingerprints taken, £30 to join the database and get the card). £30 (I think) each time you need a replacement (once on it, you are required by law to keep it). £30 every ten years to get your fingerprints taken again - or whatever the put the fee up to (once on it, you'll have no choice but to renew). £1000 if you forget to inform them of a change of address (or they mess it up and say you haven't told them). Plus the billions being spent on the NIR and promoting the scheme. Plus the cost to police and public services for buying all the card readers, to be passed on to taxpayers or taken out of other budgets. Plus the cost to businesses for buying card readers and linking in to get your data, to be passed on to customers. In total it's likely to hit £20 billion, which would be about £500 per adult. Meanwhile the cost of the passport has gone up from £28 to £77 since 1999 because they have merged a lot of the database into the passport database and are deviously hiding the costs in the passport fees. It's all a terrible waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 £30 every ten years to get your fingerprints taken again - or whatever the put the fee up to (once on it, you'll have no choice but to renew). . I thought dragon of ana was trying to use the cost of a passport as a reason to go for an ID card system,when in actual fact you'd still have to pay for that...would it be accepted as a passport? Why would you need your fingerprints doing again? They don't change do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrence Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I thought dragon of ana was trying to use the cost of a passport as a reason to go for an ID card system,when in actual fact you'd still have to pay for that...would it be accepted as a passport? £60 ID card will allow travel in European Union (not all of Europe). £77 passport will allow travel worldwide. They've had to make the card a bit cheaper than the passport so they can claim this benefit, although it's shocking that the passport would £28ish without this whole scheme! (Passport costs were predicted to fall from 1999). Why would you need your fingerprints doing again? They don't change do they? They do, yes. They're not particularly unique either. People have been imprisoned on the basis of a fingerprint match that later turned out to be a bad one. I think I'll keep mine to myself. And they're easy to copy. Mythbusters took the best fingerprint lock on the market, lifted a print from a glass, then ! Having an "illusion of security" is worse than having none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 £60 ID card will allow travel in European Union (not all of Europe). £77 passport will allow travel worldwide. They've had to make the card a bit cheaper than the passport so they can claim this benefit, although it's shocking that the passport would £28ish without this whole scheme! (Passport costs were predicted to fall from 1999). They do, yes. They're not particularly unique either. People have been imprisoned on the basis of a fingerprint match that later turned out to be a bad one. I think I'll keep mine to myself. And they're easy to copy. Mythbusters took the best fingerprint lock on the market, lifted a print from a glass, then ! Having an "illusion of security" is worse than having none at all. So if the cards were compulsory and I wanted to go to the 'states I'd have to have both a card and a passport...ridiculous state of affairs.. I think the ID card scheme would be a huge waste of money, I really can't see a benefit (for the public anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrence Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 So if the cards were compulsory and I wanted to go to the 'states I'd have to have both a card and a passport...ridiculous state of affairs.. I think the ID card scheme would be a huge waste of money, I really can't see a benefit (for the public anyway) Just a passport I think. I agree. I see no compelling reason to give my identity away to an incompetent and corrupt government, and lots of reasons not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Just a passport I think. I agree. I see no compelling reason to give my identity away to an incompetent and corrupt government, and lots of reasons not to. No,sorry I meant that if the cards were compulsory we'd still need a passport to go anywhwre other than Europe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPat Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Just a passport I think. I agree. I see no compelling reason to give my identity away to an incompetent and corrupt government, and lots of reasons not to. Would you be giving your identity away or merely evidence of what that identity is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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