alchresearch Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 It's unbelievable the number of people on the forum who are happy to let the government hold every bit of information about them on a data-base. Are you all Labour Party workers or just sheep to be rounded-up and penned-in? Maybe we're just not paranoid and comfortable with living in the 21st century? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 why do you want to give them this information for absolutely no reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The Tories are going to scrap it when they win next year anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradescanthia Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I've got no problems with ID cards etc. But an associate of mine who works in local government stated that he comes across people every day who would have 'problems with ID' and that 90% of them are "not of local origin". He reckons it would make his investigations much easier. Also he states "it would save the taxpayer/counciltax payer a considerable amount of money." Not only in fraudulent claims but in time taken to investigate as well". Unfortunately not everybody is "who they claim to be". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradescanthia Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The Tories are going to scrap it when they win next year anyways. Out of the frying pan, into the ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju-Ju Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm all for ID Cards - regardless of what the scare mongerers claim. Just how much information is already available on the net about a person is scary and perhaps we should not use the net for anything in light of this. Come to think of it - we should stop using banks and other such institutes because there are always people who can hack into the systems and get whatever information there is about a person. Scrap doctors and dentists and hospitals as well as they all have information about people which someone could get hold of. Bring in the ID cards - but let's not rush it. Make them as secure as possible - and yes - there will be errors - but is that not the case with everything? Dragon of Ana When I was a kid, my doctor had my notes in a paper wallet. When I changed doctors, these were posted on. To look at them, you had to be holding them in your hands. The past 30 years has seen an explosion in technology, developing at an exponential rate - it is difficult for lay people to keep up with these advances and all their implications. The question then becomes one of trust. Can we trust the technological systems - experience tells us that systems are prone to viruses, they can be hacked into, information gets left in taxis, sold to the highest bidder or otherwise mislaid. Well, can we trust the people then - experience tells us that trusting our politicians leads to dissapointment time and time again - just mention 'expenses' and watch the reaction, think Jeffrey Archer and 'what's his name' with his 'sword of truth' (maybe we should have a thread on all the dodgy politicians we can remember). Another question might be, do we trust the system to be able to cope with mistakes - bearing in mind that original proposals (if my memory serves me right) were that this card would replace everything and would have biometric info encoded. Well, just listen to stories from anyone who has had to deal with mistakes within large systems e.g. changing your gas supplier. People have a right to be cautious and they have a right to be cautious with their privacy and personal information, even if they are not IT experts - what they are experts in, is in their own experience in life and how systems and those in power can affect their lives. You do not have to be a criminal to fear this - just an ordinary person, who at any time in their life has come up against the abuse of power. The case for ID cards has never been convincingly made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Why would you ever have thought that? We use fingerprinting for identification purposes; there are innumerable reasons that you might need to identify someone which have nothing to do with crime. What "innumerable reasons" are there that you need fingerprints to I.D someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm all for ID Cards - regardless of what the scare mongerers claim. Just how much information is already available on the net about a person is scary and perhaps we should not use the net for anything in light of this. Come to think of it - we should stop using banks and other such institutes because there are always people who can hack into the systems and get whatever information there is about a person. Scrap doctors and dentists and hospitals as well as they all have information about people which someone could get hold of. Bring in the ID cards - but let's not rush it. Make them as secure as possible - and yes - there will be errors - but is that not the case with everything? Dragon of Ana Why introduce another error-prone system ......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptigga Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The conclusion doesn't follow from the premises. Turning 10 cards into just one is a saving of money, which is why I want one. I can get rid of having to carry all the others. You still need the other cards! You're not going to be able to put your ID card into the cash machine to withdraw money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptigga Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I've got no problems with ID cards etc. But an associate of mine who works in local government stated that he comes across people every day who would have 'problems with ID' and that 90% of them are "not of local origin". He reckons it would make his investigations much easier. Also he states "it would save the taxpayer/counciltax payer a considerable amount of money." Not only in fraudulent claims but in time taken to investigate as well". Unfortunately not everybody is "who they claim to be". I don't agree with this. An ID card is just another identity document. The only difference is that people will naturally place a lot more trust in ID cards because we're being told that they are infallible. But they are not infallible. The chip can be cloned with 12 minutes. Blank passports frequently go missing now and end up in the hands of people who make a business of printing fake passports - the same will happen with ID cards. People will pay criminals to get fake IDs. If staying in the country is worthwhile then they'll pay what it costs to get a decent fake. They may even apply for a legitimate ID card using dodgy documents, and if those aren't spotted then they will then have a legitimate fake identity. ID cards won't solve the problem of identity fraud, they will make identity fraud easier because of the trust that people mistakenly attribute to the cards. The chip on your ID card can be cloned by someone with a reader and they don't have to take the card out of your pocket to clone it. It's then just a matter of printing another piece of plastic. This will past most level 1 (visual inspection of the card) and level 2 checks (use a reader to examine data on the chip and compare it against presented biometrics). These checks don't require a connection to the central database. Even border checks are only level 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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