llamatron Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Pupils use computer keyboards and mice, I don't see you mentioning the risk of swine flu on those. Not everyone has a driving licence or passport. I know several people who don't and find it hard to get anywhere in life without this kind of proof. Same with utility bills and credit card statements. Im pretty sure they will still require utility bills because all these cards can be faked so easily. Maybe we should all get fake ones to scupper the governments plans:hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br8inend Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Pupils use computer keyboards and mice, I don't see you mentioning the risk of swine flu on those. Not everyone has a driving licence or passport. I know several people who don't and find it hard to get anywhere in life without this kind of proof. Same with utility bills and credit card statements. Does every child touch very same buttons on the very same keyboard in the very same room , everyday ? Its like everyone sharing the very same spoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrence Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm all for ID Cards - regardless of what the scare mongerers claim. Just how much information is already available on the net about a person is scary and perhaps we should not use the net for anything in light of this. A detailed record of your daily life is available on the internet? I think not. Yet a few years down the line, when you it's impossible to life your daily life without using the damn thing a dozen times, that record will be on the National Indentity Register for thousands of civil servants and private companies to view. Come to think of it - we should stop using banks and other such institutes because there are always people who can hack into the systems and get whatever information there is about a person. You should be carefully safeguard your personal information, yes. Give out information on a "need to know" basis and question why you are being asked for seemingly unnecessary personal details. The government has proven itself incapable of looking after personal information. There is no way I am going to hand them control of my identity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 WOW. I can't believe you guys have been so liberal. It's brilliant. If it's a biometric card with all the relevant data and can do away with all the other nonsense, it'd be brilliant "All the other nonsense" is actually more secure than a single point of identification, harder to forge, and more trouble to procure. Biometrics is snake-oil that has been sold to technically illiterate government ministers, in order that they might try and assuage fears about a central database being compromised. All the biometrics in the world won't stop a corrupt high level operative skimming copies off. With multiple locus identification, the chances are much lower, because more people need to be bought off/compromised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju-Ju Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Cyclone, have you got any more information the Department of Education guidance please? As part of the No2ID campaign in Sheffield, we're looking at ways we can help to stop fingerprinting in local schools. Hi ptigga, would appreciate more info on fingerprinting in schools - had absolutely no idea that this was going on - incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 neither did I, scary! I take it they did inform the parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Does every child touch very same buttons on the very same keyboard in the very same room , everyday ? Its like everyone sharing the very same spoon! They certainly do. The CONTROL, ALT, DELETE, SPACE and RETURN buttons are used by at least seven people on one computer every single day. Cleaning 300+ computer keyboards after every user is not an option. Cleaning the thumb scanner is, and is generally done. People should read the threads on Edugeek - from actual users of the system - before making uneducated rants about police states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Just an anecdote, which is somewhat relevant to this thread. I am currently in the process of buying a house. My conveyancing solicitor asked for a form of ID, re. money laundering regulations. No probs says I, and I sent her my (French) passport. After all, proof of ID doesn't get much more higher/authoritative/genuine that a passport, right? Wrong, turns out my passport wasn't good enough () but a photocopy of my Switch bank card, certified by an independent witness (work colleague), was OK. I mean, WTF?!? FWIW, I'm in my late 30s and I have had a (French) national ID card all my life, I only got a passport when I was 18. It hasn't made me any more singled out/criminalised/watched/persecuted by any French, British or other governement agency. The current one required fingerprint data on the renewal form. That was over 9 years ago, btw. Still not had my ID usurped/stolen/used for whatever nefarious purposes. That said, it does make life easy for the banks/stores/transport and, importantly, cops over there. Especially for identifying, bagging and tagging illegal immigrants: everybody must have one, so if you don't have one = you're not from these parts, so explain who you are/where you're from/do we need to ship you out (said in a non-inflammatory/non-partisan way, just matter-of-factly). Regardless of the above, however, that The government has proven itself incapable of looking after personal information.is a very valid point in the UK. Somewhat mitigated by the existence and administration of British passports since times immemorial.... but not quite enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju-Ju Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 FWIW, I'm in my late 30 and I have had a (French) national ID card all my life. It hasn't made me any more singled out/criminalised/watched/persecuted by any French, British or other governement agency. The current one required fingerprint data on the renewal form. That was over 9 years ago, btw. Still not had my ID usurped/stolen/used for whatever nefarious purposes. Am I right though, that it is a criminal offence not to carry one - so you are potentially criminalised? I really admired the stance that the French took over wheel clamping - I guess different things hit a raw nerve with different people. Perhaps ID cards came in in France at a time when people had less reason to worry about personal privacy/security? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Am I right though, that it is a criminal offence not to carry one - so you are potentially criminalised? No. They are optional since 1955. In practice, everybody has one because it's just far too much hassle living without (especially in dealings with any branch of the civil service). I've only ever been asked to produce mine twice in over 30 years. Perhaps ID cards came in in France at a time when people had less reason to worry about personal privacy/security?ID cards have always existed in one form or another over there, and have been photo-based since the late 40s I believe. For context, France also gave the world CHIP & PIN, btw. But they're years behind for 'CCTV-isation'. Swings and roundabouts. But then when they are cracked (which took minutes),and someone gets a fake one are they then incontrovertibly citizens?I'd be interested in a link or two about these 'cracked/fake French ID cards' (of course fakeholders are not "then incontrovertibly citizens", you know better than to make such a daft comment, auto. But I have yet to hear of successful fakes, 14 years after they introduced the current model. There's a lot more tech than meets the eye in them French ID cards, let me tell you ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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