Magilla Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) So anyone handed a spot fine by the police should just tell the officer that they are not allowed to give them out and refuse to pay it ? That is an offer to avoid a court summons for a criminal offence. By paying it you're essentially pleading guilty to the court. You are well within your rights to refuse to pay it, at which time you will recieve a summons. Either way, it is as if you have had your day in court. On the spot "fines" (as you say) for dropping litter etc are not criminal offences and are rarely handed out by the police. They are not fines, they are penalties. Edited November 26, 2009 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongo Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 That is an offer to avoid a court summons for a criminal offence. By paying it you're essentially pleading guilty to the court. You are well within your rights to refuse to pay it, at which time you will recieve a summons. Either way, it is as if you have had your day in court. On the spot "fines" (as you say) for dropping litter etc are not criminal offences and are rarely handed out by the police. They are not fines, they are penalties. It doesnt matter how you dress it up, a PND is basically a fine, same as the "invoice" the people on here are talking about. By the way, how did you manage to bring "dropping litter" into the equation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 It doesnt matter how you dress it up, a PND is basically a fine, same as the "invoice" the people on here are talking about. I'm not dressing it up at all, this is how the law of the land works. I accept they both mean you pay out money but there is a difference. By the way, how did you manage to bring "dropping litter" into the equation ? To highlight the difference between a criminal offence, which recieves a fine, and a civil one, which doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongo Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm not dressing it up at all, this is how the law of the land works. I accept they both mean you pay out money but there is a difference. To highlight the difference between a criminal offence, which recieves a fine, and a civil one, which doesn't. Shoplifting.....criminal offence? Drunk and Disorderly...criminal offence? Surely criminal damage has to be criminal offence but to name a few that can result in a PND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loubeelou Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Don't try to bully me guys, you know I am right! pay the FINE and give up the fight! :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Shoplifting.....criminal offence? Drunk and Disorderly...criminal offence? Surely criminal damage has to be criminal offence but to name a few that can result in a PND. From the home office website:- "A PND (Penalty Notice for Disorder) is a one off fine that can be issued for a specific list of offences. PNDs were introduced by the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 to address anti-social behaviour while also reducing police bureaucracy and paperwork." So yes, it's a fine for a criminal offence. Edited November 26, 2009 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongo Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 From the home office website:- "A PND (Penalty Notice for Disorder) is a one off fine that can be issued for a specific list of offences. PNDs were introduced by the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 to address anti-social behaviour while also reducing police bureaucracy and paperwork." So yes, it's a fine for a criminal offence. So, you agree now that what you put in your earlier post was wrong? I only say this because there seems to be a lot of things posted on this thread that people seem to think are fact and correct, when in fact they are some very dubious statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Don't try to bully me guys, you know I am right! pay the FINE and give up the fight! :hihi: Ahh, I'm not trying, honest. I'm not suggesting that you don't have a point but the distinction is important in terms of what might happen to you later (should you refuse to pay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) So, you agree now that what you put in your earlier post was wrong? I only say this because there seems to be a lot of things posted on this thread that people seem to think are fact and correct, when in fact they are some very dubious statements. No, a parking offence on private land is a civil offence, and as such you do not recieve a fine, you recieve an invoice/penalty. Council parking wardens issue penalty charge notices (PCN, a penalty) under the councils decriminalised parking scheme. Edited November 26, 2009 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongo Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 No, a parking offence on private land is a civil offence, and as such you do not recieve a fine, you recieve an invoice/penalty. Council parking wardens issue penalty charge notices (PCN, a penalty) under the councils decriminalised parking scheme. My god, what is wrong with you? You posted this It's not a fine, a fine can only be handed out by a court. . Then I questioned you, telling you that Police issue fines and you finally posted this which states exactly that a PND is a one off FINE!! From the home office website:- "A PND (Penalty Notice for Disorder) is a one off fine that can be issued for a specific list of offences. PNDs were introduced by the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 to address anti-social behaviour while also reducing police bureaucracy and paperwork." So yes, it's a fine for a criminal offence. Then you still say you are right and go back to spouting crap about INVOICES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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