Women who wear burkhas in public in France will be fined

[Halibut]

I personally think that the Burqa is offensive.

Fair enough I find this particular subjugation of women unpleasant and unneccesary.

Is it still subjugation if women freely choose to wear it?

 

It looks out of place on our streets.

I've never understood this complaint. It's like a call for everyone to look the same - daft.

It is dangerous when someone is driving wearing the burqa/face cover. It is quite obviously a security risk if the wearer cannot be identified, particularly when one section of our community is so overly represented as terrorists.

 

It's quite reasonable to expect anyone wearing a burqa to identify herslf for valid security reasons, but not to ban her from wearing it at all.

 

I also find it very difficult to deal with people face to Burqa, it puts the wearer at a great advantage in a business situation - they can see your "tells" you cannot see hers. It should not be down to individual shopkeeper to start to tell customers to take certain items of clothing off before they come into ther shop, it could be seen as offensive and distrustful - not a good start to a commercial relationship.

 

Do you base these observations on experience or supposition?

 

However, I think it is fraught with problems when a government seeks to legislate against a certain item of clothing - I can't see how this can be done practically.

 

Here, I agree with you Ron. Another thought that has occurred to me? Since the French objection appears to based on religious grounds wouldn't it be interesting to see what happened if a non-muslim group of women started wearing a burqa-style full face covering for non-religious reasons?

[hard2miss]

It is a problem because it specifically targets peaceful individuals, for no good reason.

Like a lot of people using airports then. If people are expected to display themselves (and children) intimatly in the name of security then why are people worried about a minorities feelings regaurding the burka ?

 

I dont mean this to sound funny but we are having our freedoms erroded daily because of a minority of islamic terrorists so you would think that muslims in the west would drop using the burka to show solidarity to the nations that they have adopted.

 

Wearing the burka is claimed to be about modesty but now we are all to be seen naked because of some islamic fundimentalists. I dont think its too much to ask at all that this degrading piece of garment is made totaly illigal in france, here and anywhere else that is targeted by these people.

[Wildcat]

I personally think that the Burqa is offensive. I find this particular subjugation of women unpleasant and unneccesary.

 

I would agree if it was imposed. However many women choose to wear the Burqa for religious reasons. Part of a spiritual journey that has the same roots as monasticism and meditation.

 

It looks out of place on our streets. It is dangerous when someone is driving wearing the burqa/face cover.

 

Then restrict it whilst driving, no need for a ban elsewhere.

 

It is quite obviously a security risk if the wearer cannot be identified, particularly when one section of our community is so overly represented as terrorists.

 

There is already a requirement for them to be removed for identification purposes for security reasons, I can't see any need to go beyond what we already have.

 

I also find it very difficult to deal with people face to Burqa, it puts the wearer at a great advantage in a business situation - they can see your "tells" you cannot see hers. It should not be down to individual shopkeeper to start to tell customers to take certain items of clothing off before they come into ther shop, it could be seen as offensive and distrustful - not a good start to a commercial relationship.

However, I think it is fraught with problems when a government seeks to legislate against a certain item of clothing - I can't see how this can be done practically.

 

You have a choice who you do business with, some people have poker faces and are better at lieing than others looking for tells won't protect you from dodgy dealings.

 

I agree about the problems. I can't see any way that such a law can be legislated for that properly respects people's freedom of expression.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Wildcat

[Wildcat]

Here, I agree with you Ron. Another thought that has occurred to me? Since the French objection appears to based on religious grounds wouldn't it be interesting to see what happened if a non-muslim group of women started wearing a burqa-style full face covering for non-religious reasons?

 

I am sure I have seen examples on fashion pages of the newspapers, and probably from the catwalks of Paris.

[hard2miss]

Since the French objection appears to based on religious grounds wouldn't it be interesting to see what happened if a non-muslim group of women started wearing a burqa-style full face covering for non-religious reasons?

It is worn for none religious reasons. The burka is not a religious garment at all.

 

It is argued its about supressing women on one side and about modesty on the other but its not worn because it says to do so in the Koran I dont beleve.

[ptigga]

well its been made law, and its a christian country

 

No, its a non-secular country. Christian symbolism is banned too.

[RonJeremy]

Is it still subjugation if women freely choose to wear it?

Yes, it probably is.

I've never understood this complaint. It's like a call for everyone to look the same - daft.

Well not for everyone to look the same - you're never going to get this in UK . . well not until we are an islamic state like Iran/ Afghanistan/ Saudi/ Yemen etc

 

It's quite reasonable to expect anyone wearing a burqa to identify herslf for valid security reasons, but not to ban her from wearing it at all.

So you're suggesting a ban for security/safety situations like driving/ going through airports/ travelling on the tube/ buses

 

Do you base these observations on experience or supposition?

 

Both experience and common sense

 

Here, I agree with you Ron. Another thought that has occurred to me? Since the French objection appears to based on religious grounds wouldn't it be interesting to see what happened if a non-muslim group of women started wearing a burqa-style full face covering for non-religious reasons?

 

I am not sure how this would help security?

[Wildcat]

Like a lot of people using airports then. If people are expected to display themselves (and children) intimatly in the name of security then why are people worried about a minorities feelings regaurding the burka ?

 

I dont mean this to sound funny but we are having our freedoms erroded daily because of a minority of islamic terrorists so you would think that muslims in the west would drop using the burka to show solidarity to the nations that they have adopted.

 

Wearing the burka is claimed to be about modesty but now we are all to be seen naked because of some islamic fundimentalists. I dont think its too much to ask at all that this degrading piece of garment is made totaly illigal in france, here and anywhere else that is targeted by these people.

 

Why should women stop wearing the Burka to show solidarity with the West over terrorism? It is not like the Burka is a sign of solidarity with Al Qaeda, it is a statement of identity at a time when they are feeling oppressed.

 

This article gives some of the reasons and an informed and articulate response to why Sarkozy's actions are fueled by islamaphobia, rather than any respect for the West's liberal traditions.

 

http://www.bmsd.org.uk/articles.asp?id=34

Edited January 7, 2010 by Wildcat

[Wildcat]

It is worn for none religious reasons. The burka is not a religious garment at all.

 

It is argued its about supressing women on one side and about modesty on the other but its not worn because it says to do so in the Koran I dont beleve.

 

No it isn't a requirement of the Koran or Islam. It is however a cultural tradition linked up with self reflection and the seeking of enlightenment, very much a religious endeavour and something that is shared in common by all religions.

[RonJeremy]

No, its a non-secular country. Christian symbolism is banned too.

 

my bold - it's a fiercely secular country!