Women who wear burkhas in public in France will be fined

[quisquose]

I expect that is precisely why they did it.

 

Rather like punks in the seventies in their bondage trousers, the intention is provoke, it is a part of our youth culture to do this and has been for sometime.

 

Me and my wife viewed it pretty much in the same manner Wildcat. To be honest, unlike PT, this sort of youthful rebellion is natural and I didn't find it offensive at all. They were only making idiots of themselves, and probably only wore them for the afternoon.

[kimba]

wake up

this is britain 2010 not the middle east in the 1500s

 

free these poor misguided women, they are like circus bears where they know no different and beleeve they need to be doing this.

make it law and free them.

[boyfriday]

I would agree with you about the offensiveness of cutting up an actual nation's flag to make a garment out of. That's disrespectful.

 

I intend to wear little else at the next forum meet than my Union Jack boxer shorts, watch Dozy go WILD!

[boyfriday]

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown argues that "a girl in a boob tube and a girl in a hijab are both symbols of unhealthy sexual objectification".

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-we-dont-yet-live-in-an-islamic-republic-so-i-will-say-it--i-find-the-veil-offensive-419333.html

 

So you are correct to bring in the comparison with fake boobs. If we can accept one side of a girl's "unhealthy sexual objectification", then we should accept the other. Both girls may argue that it is their choice, whilst there may be varying degrees of male coercion.

 

Following this same logic of course neatly demolishes any idea that the burqa/niqab is "modest", it is the opposite of modest just as the boob tube is.

 

However, I would go further and argue that the niqab is offensive, whilst the boob tube is not.

 

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is offended by it because she says that it is represents a politicised Islam, and because she is a feminist.

 

I am offended by it simply by being a man. Girls that wear boob tubes and skimpy skirts are only offending themselves, girls that wear the niqab are making a statement about men.

 

A few weeks ago I saw three young girls wearing niqabs fabricated from Pakistani flags. I can only guess they were worn to offend, they certainly weren't "modest". They would have offended Yasmin Alibhai-Brown for sure.

 

Of course I don't have a right not to be offended, and I would never support any attempts to ban a girl's right to wear anything.

 

In terms of opinion we're not far apart, I also believe the burka is a patronising reflection on men and their perceived inadequacies, however its still no reason to ban it, that would merely highlight other inadequacies.

[hard2miss]

Have they had a clean up ? I posted on here earlier that I was leaving you all to it.

 

Oh well, maybe one of the mods wants me to stick with the debate

[quisquose]

I must say that the article by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in today's Independant has some uncomfortable truths:

 

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: The cloak of darkness is no exercise of civil liberties

 

It has certainly made me uncomfortable with my own position anyway. Am I being naive? Have the French got it right?

 

[hard2miss]

None of us could have said it better.

 

I agree with every word in that artical.

 

This bit I like the best

We Muslims worldwide are engaged in ideological struggles against the Saudi Wahabis who have the cash and cunning to lure disenchanted middle-class and impoverished, powerless Muslims into their caves, where light itself fears to enter. Yet some liberal Westerners take dilettante positions on freedom because their own lives are unaffected. Instead of standing with modernists, the staunchest defenders of freedom, they defect to the enemy. The retrogressive Muslim Council of Britain is now back in bed with the Government.

[boyfriday]

None of us could have said it better.

 

I agree with every word in that artical.

 

This bit I like the best

 

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown may well be right, but her opinion as a Muslim woman has no more validity than the Archbishop of Canterbury representing the views of Christians and British people by suggesting we should be more accommodating to sharia law.

 

She may well have a view about the burka, just like we all do, but banning it would be no better than the the Saudi Wahabis who have the cash and cunning to lure disenchanted middle-class and impoverished, powerless Muslims into their caves

[hard2miss]

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown may well be right, but her opinion as a Muslim woman has no more validity than the Archbishop of Canterbury representing the views of Christian

Ang on, all you get from the Muslims in this topic and other is 'how would you know, don't you think Muslims would know more about it ?'

 

Either Muslims would know more about it or they wouldnt, in which case if they wouldnt then how can we take the ones on this topic serious ?

[quisquose]

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown may well be right, but her opinion as a Muslim woman has no more validity than the Archbishop of Canterbury representing the views of Christians and British people by suggesting we should be more accommodating to sharia law.

 

She may well have a view about the burka, just like we all do, but banning it would be no better than the the Saudi Wahabis who have the cash and cunning to lure disenchanted middle-class and impoverished, powerless Muslims into their caves

 

I don't understand what you are getting at in your last para. Care to elaborate.