Women who wear burkhas in public in France will be fined

[Magilla]

The more the issue is forced and used as a stick to beat Islam with, the more younger women will react against it wear it as a symbol of defiance, as is evidently already happening IMO.

 

Indeed, but in reality its a pretty illogical standpoint. What is the point of wearing an outfit designed for modesty and safety when in reality all it does is make them stand out from the crowd, screaming "Look at me! Look at me", and drawing attention.

 

Wouldn't that be the opposite of what was intended? If so it would seem to be a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Kthebean]

Indeed, but in reality its a pretty illogical standpoint. What is the point of wearing an outfit designed for modesty and safety when in reality all it does is make them stand out from the crowd, screaming "Look at me! Look at me", and drawing attention.

 

Wouldn't that be the opposite of what was intended? If so it would seem to be a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

Well, personally I dont think the outfit is designed for modesty and safety I think its designed to objectify the woman and send a clear signal of ownership.

 

What tab is saying is that some younger women may wear it in protest if the government tries to ban it, which I dont know is true and dont really care about.

[rubydazzler]

Yes I think there is that argument too. I'm not entrenched in my views on this - just cautious. More from the perspective of not wanting the government making things illegal left right and centre on the basis that 'we dont like it'. In some respects, to me, that is as you say "to give up our hard fought for free, equal and democratic society". In that way I dont think that 'not making it illegal' is the same as 'tacitly supporting'. If this is really a measure of support for women I think parliamentary time and police resources could be much better spent on projects like Apna Haq or dealing with the problems of women with no recourse to public funds.[/URL]. However as I say I dont really have a firm view and follow the debate with interest.

My bolds. I accept your comments, perhaps I get a little overheated at times. Due probably to being a backwards old feminist as shaz112 earlier described me . Thank you for the information in your last paragraph. Can we get involved to help in any way? I briefly met a woman some years ago who was in similar circumstances to the second link, although tab1 intimated at the time that, iho, I making it all up for propaganda purposes

 

My main concern remains that one day some radical will win a court case that makes me "respect" this uniform, at least from a position of an employer. There are then plenty of unpleasant characters like this that lecture about "normalising" the wearing the niqab.

Me too. I think that's a real concern, although I also can see why some young women might adapt it as a way of 'cocking a snook' at westernisation, as we've been told is sometimes the case, even though they know very well that the minute they choose too they can take it off, with no adverse consequences. Although we have gone partially down that road already, remember the hairdresser who was forced to pay compensation for not employing a hijaab wearing trainee? Bizarrely I feel, as hairdressing is about the only occupation I can think of where wearing a hijaab would be a legitimate factor against employment.

[John X]

The more the issue is forced and used as a stick to beat Islam with, the more younger women will react against it wear it as a symbol of defiance, as is evidently already happening IMO.

 

That is a very important point which needs to be considered.

 

In 'nationalist' areas in the North of Ireland, it was virtually impossible to make any kind of 'constructive criticism' of the Catholic Church as it was seen as a 'badge of identity for the oppressed' as much as a religion.

 

Those muslim women who are struggling with the misogynist aspects of having to wear the niquab would lay aside those doubts if they saw themselves as wearing it as an oppressed Muslim rather than an oppressed woman.

 

John X

[boyfriday]

Precisely.

 

We somehow accept that we are not allowed to eat, smoke or drink what we like but we draw the line at what we wear why?*

I was particularly referring to our eating choices and cant really think what food the state prohibits us from eating

It's the overall harm that needs to be considered. Unfortunately the overall harm is difficult to determine with the burqa/niqab. The victims are imprisoned and silent, and most of them live in foreign lands. To see the rise of the niqab in the west will no doubt empower unpleasant men to abuse the name of Islam to excuse their abuse of women.

I'm careful when opposing a ban on the burka to relate my argument to the UK, as some have difficulty in separating the domestic situation with the one in Islamic states-I absolutely oppose a country that prescribes a mode of dress on its female citizens.

 

As has been said before if Muslim women are oppressed and Westerners see the burka as a symbol of that oppression, then we should seek to address the root cause, not it's outward manifestation.

 

I started a thread a few weeks back asking people to sign an Amnesty International petition supporting Muslim women seeking liberation in Iran, we can help in other ways than telling them what they should or shouldn't be wearing.

 

*This is even assuming that we are currently free to wear what we want, which we are not. Nudity and fur come to mind, even at the same time if that floats your boat.

..and equally I would defend someone's right to walk around in the nuddie if they wanted to, doesn't bother me a jot, and as far as I remember there is no prohibition on the wearing of fur in the UK.

 

Ps: I'm now left wondering whether France will ban kilts since it isn't part of their culture for men to wear woolly skirts

[jobee]

How is France or Britain (as it's not clear which you mean) a 'Christian country'?

 

England is atheist/humanist.

[John X]

well its been made law, and its a christian country

 

Wrong on both counts.

 

It hasn't been made law, and the motivation is precisely not because it is a 'christian' country, but because it is against the French republican principles of secularism and equality.

 

John X

[quisquose]

I was particularly referring to our eating choices and cant really think what food the state prohibits us from eating

 

Come on boyfriday, you're not trying are you?

 

[boyfriday]

Come on boyfriday, you're not trying are you?

 

 

Well I'm at work and just contemplating the secret pleasure of an Iced Fancy that would be forbidden at home

[TheBlackStig]

Well I'm at work and just contemplating the secret pleasure of an Iced Fancy that would be forbidden at home

 

Is it a white one or a pink one ?? get some work done and have a rest from the thread BF . Back away from your keyboard NOW...

I still say that wearing a burkha is ok but does cause problems because of the lack of facial recognition and more importantly the gestures that the face gives when speaking to someone. some people obviously are feeling ill at ease with burkha wearers for varying issues but I believe the biggest problem that most people have is "they are too nosey" it knocks their duck off that they dont know who is exactly behind the Burkha...