Holocaust Memorial Day today 27th Jan

[Wildcat]

Right so to protect the French Resistance from the 'dishonour' of people accurately discussion their significance to the war effort besmirching De Gaulle

 

Much as I dislike De Gaulle for his actions when leading the 'free french' and later France it's simply not true to say he didn't fight the Nazis. The division he commanded was one of the few to acquit itself well during the initial landwar in the West which is a major reason he later rose to such prominence.

 

I think he might be making a point along the lines of this song:

 

André Malraux is a good example of someone that fought fascism in Spain and France.

[plekhanov]

The French resistance contributed much to helping the allies. The brother of my father in law was a tail gunner aboard a B-17 that was shot down over France. He and a fellow crew member were taken in and hidden by members of the resistance and eventually smuggled across Pyranees into Spain. I'm sure that there were many other allied aircrews that were saved from captivity also.

 

Amongst other things the resistance did was to sabotage trains and lines of communications just before D-Day and they were active in the liberation of Paris

They made a contribution certainly but not "a hell of a contribution to the allies". Sheltering Allied airman for example is all very laudable but just how many airman did it actually return to active service?

[plekhanov]

Ahem:

 

Holocaust Memorial Day (HMD) commemorates the tragic loss of life in the genocides of World War II, in Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda and Darfur.

 

http://www.hmd.org.uk/

 

The article mentions Auschwitz specifically because it's the 65th anniversary of liberation of the camp, 27th Jan!

My issue was with only mentioning Jewish victims of the Nazis not with the mention of Auschwitz. The article didn't even say "6-7 million predominantly Jews" or similar. It said

 

"in which an estimated six million Jews were massacred"

 

All the other victim groups are "forgotten" which is something I thought this day was supposed to prevent.

[spindrift]

Complain to The Star then!

[Harleyman]

A Jewish pilceman first saved Spilman, Polanski directed the film.

 

 

I would suggest that in a brutal, dehumanising regime you will always get radically perverse human behaviour.

 

There were 'good' kapos and harsh capos: some of the sonderkommandos were so abusive and cruel that they could be even worse than their Nazi counterparts. While this seems almost impossible, it is actually a common reaction under severe forms of captivity. Psychologists refer to a phenomenon called, "identification with the aggressor"2 , a defense mechanism which was first described by Sigmund Freud. More recently with regard to captivity it has been referred to as "The Stockholm Syndrome" 3

 

 

http://www.shoaheducation.com/sonder.html

 

Given the cruelty of some of the kapos, it is easy to attribute traits to them such as betrayal, disloyalty and abandonment. One needs to remember though that there is a difference between choosing to turn to betrayal, and falling into it as a psychological escape. When a situation becomes so oppressive and unbearable as the world of a Death Camp, it is impossible to predict who will and who will not succumb to distorted methods of spiritual/emotional survival. It is important to remember that most kapos were selected for duty against their will, and it was a time when moral questions became deeply challenged and undone. In day to day survival, while there were astoundingly noble actions and moments even martyrdom on the part of some individuals, most persons most of the time were focused only on survival: they longer one survived, in any way possible, the better chance of the war ending and freedom coming.

 

"Against their will" I'm far from sure about. The offer of better clothing, more food and other little priveleges was the true reason

[plekhanov]

I think he might be making a point along the lines of this song:

 

André Malraux is a good example of someone that fought fascism in Spain and France.

De Gaulle was injured several times fighting in WWI (not so far as I'm aware pinning medals on his chest but fighting the Germans) and taken prisoner which would suggest he must have been within some proximity to the front line. In WWII as I have already mentioned he was one of the few French even Allied commanders to come out of the early war with any credit. To say he didn't fight the Germans is simply false.

[depoix]

Right so to protect the French Resistance from the 'dishonour' of people accurately discussion their significance to the war effort besmirching De Gaulle

 

Much as I dislike De Gaulle for his actions when leading the 'free french' and later France it's simply not true to say he didn't fight the Nazis. The division he commanded was one of the few to acquit itself well during the initial landwar in the West which is a major reason he later rose to such prominence.

right lets get this sorted out ,you posted that the french resistance didnt do to much in post 55

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5873188&postcount=55

 

to wich i replied in the post 56 that they did a lot and degaulle didnt

then because you hate it when someone doesnt agree with you you come back with some codswallop about me posting degaulle as a red herring

your next post is a complete turnaround ,you now say that the resistance did a good job,or words to that effect ,the " few" french you mentioned were actuallyhundreds

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5873391&postcount=64

 

then we have post 67 where i point out to you that you were wrong you were trying to put words into my mouth and twisting things to suit

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5873438&postcount=67

 

now you come back with protecting the french resistance and besmirching them ,still dragging degaulle behind you like a big brother who you brought along to side with you

 

get it into your head plek ,i defended the resistance as you were slagging them off ,degaulle had nothing to do with it,i merely pointed out that those members who were in the resistance actually fought the germans ,degaulle however came over to england ,as you say he may have had a division but they didnt last long,they surrendered and degaulle did a runner ,he was a laughing stock

i could go on but iv'e already covered what i wanted to

[Wildcat]

I would suggest that in a brutal, dehumanising regime you will always get radically perverse human behaviour.

 

There were 'good' kapos and harsh capos

 

It might be worth recalling that the capos helped people escape and staged a revolt at Auschwitz:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz#Birkenau_revolt

[spindrift]

"Against their will" I'm far from sure about. The offer of better clothing, more food and other little priveleges was the true reason

 

depoix, it is not even fair to ask you what you would do if you thought it would save the life of your parents or child. It is a question nobody should have to answer, and it's easy to pass judgement having never experienced such a colossal moral vacuum.

[Wildcat]

depoix, it is not even fair to ask you what you would do if you thought it would save the life of your parents or child. It is a question nobody should have to answer, and it's easy to pass judgement having never experienced such a colossal moral vacuum.

 

I think you mean Harleyman.....