Holocaust Memorial Day today 27th Jan

[spindrift]

Beg your pardon!

[depoix]

depoix, it is not even fair to ask you what you would do if you thought it would save the life of your parents or child. It is a question nobody should have to answer, and it's easy to pass judgement having never experienced such a colossal moral vacuum.

sorry could you be a little more specific

[plekhanov]

right lets get this sorted out ,you posted that the french resistance didnt do to much in post 55

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5873188&postcount=55

 

to wich i replied in the post 56 that they did a lot and degaulle didnt

then because you hate it when someone doesnt agree with you you come back with some codswallop about me posting degaulle as a red herring

your next post is a complete turnaround ,you now say that the resistance did a good job,or words to that effect ,the " few" french you mentioned were actuallyhundreds

There was no turnaround. Do you really not understand that there is no contradiction in saying that that those who resisted did so with honour but that it didn't actually amount to a great deal, especially not in comparison to other resistance forces such as those in Greece and Yugoslavia?

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5873391&postcount=64

 

then we have post 67 where i point out to you that you were wrong you were trying to put words into my mouth and twisting things to suit

Please do provide a direct quote to back up this silly claim.

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5873438&postcount=67

 

now you come back with protecting the french resistance and besmirching them ,still dragging degaulle behind you like a big brother who you brought along to side with you

 

get it into your head plek ,i defended the resistance as you were slagging them off

A direct quote to substantiate this delusional claim please.

 

,degaulle had nothing to do with it,

Which is precisely why I pointed out it was a complete red herring for you to bring him up.

 

i merely pointed out that those members who were in the resistance actually fought the germans ,degaulle however came over to england ,as you say he may have had a division but they didnt last long,they surrendered and degaulle did a runner ,he was a laughing stock

i could go on but iv'e already covered what i wanted to

Yeah such a laughing stock they kept on electing him President and why Gaullism is still a significant political force in France

 

As a young man De Gaulle fought the Germans and put his body on the line to do so. As an older man he continued to fight the Germans it simply absurd of you to try and pretend he didn't. Just because he was something of a scumbag who showed appalling ingratitude to Britain and the USA that doesn't magically mean he didn't fight the Germans

[Wildcat]

Holocaust Memorial Day has been extensively criticised for this in the past and it's good to see that the website is finally giving some prominence to other genocides.

 

The fact however remains "the Holocaust, from its conception to its implementation had a distinctly Jewish aspect to it and, arguably without this Jewish aspect, there would have been no Holocaust. Most of the non-Jewish people would not have been killed because the killing machinery would not have been put into operation. "

 

http://www.holocaust-history.org/jews-central/

[depoix]

yes i know all about that plek,my point was you dissing the resistance fighters

 

degaulle was running the free french by radio from london after he managed to get over here,without the help of the resistance we would have struggled to invade northern france and fight the germans ,degaulle was not much liked by our own leader or the american one as you will see here ....

 

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/charles_de_gaulle.htm

[Wildcat]

sorry could you be a little more specific

 

He apologised in the post above yours. I expect he was looking at your exchange with Plekhanov and feeling grateful not to be the recipient of his meticuolous analysis, and he used your name by accident when the question was posed to Harleyman.

[Harleyman]

They made a contribution certainly but not "a hell of a contribution to the allies". Sheltering Allied airman for example is all very laudable but just how many airman did it actually return to active service?

 

They did what they could. France wasn't like Yugoslavia, Greece or Russia, rugged mountainous terrain ideal for hit and run ambushes which were very effective in doing most harm to the occupiers by killing them and keeping divisions tied down that were needed elsewhere.

 

Major cities in France were well garrisoned by the Germans and even small towns had enough soldiers to maintain a pretty tight grip. In short, France was a much easier place to occupy and control than any of the others previously mentioned. There were quite a lot of French who were sympathetic to the Germans also and betrayal by a neighbour even was always a possibility.

 

Not so in Russia or Yugoslavia where the Germans were universally loathed due to their atrocities and in Greece where any invader of any kind was historically an enemy to be slaughtered whenever possible

[Wildcat]

Around 2% of the french were actively involved in the resistance.

 

30,000 civilians were killed in retribution killings by the Nazis.

 

There were collaborators but the bravery and scale of the resistance should not be forgotten either.

[Wildcat]

In Himmler's Posen speech he explicitly talks franky about the intention of genocide.

 

I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people are being exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it, hah, a small matter.' [...] But of all those who talk this way, none had observed it, none had endured it. Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when 500 lie there or when 1,000 are lined up. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person - with exceptions due to human weaknesses - had made us tough. This is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned. [...] We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it, to kill this people who wanted to kill us.

[plekhanov]

yes i know all about that plek,my point was you dissing the resistance fighters

How is it 'dissing' the resistance fighters simply to point out that they did not as shaz112 falsely claimed make "a hell of a contribution to the allies" they did all they could and made a contribution it just wasn't that big.

 

degaulle was running the free french by radio from london after he managed to get over here,without the help of the resistance we would have struggled to invade northern france and fight the germans ,degaulle was not much liked by our own leader or the american one as you will see here ....

 

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/charles_de_gaulle.htm

Why are you trying to pretend I don't know about what De Gaulle did to upset Churchill and Roosevelt. What do you thin I was reffering to when I said

 

"Much as I dislike De Gaulle for his actions when leading the 'free french' and later France it's simply not true to say he didn't fight the Nazis."

 

way back in post 84?

 

Why do you think I refferred to him as a "scumbag" in my previous post? The fact is though that contrary to your blatantly false claims he's a scumbag who fought the Germans.