Holocaust Memorial Day today 27th Jan

[depoix]

He apologised in the post above yours. I expect he was looking at your exchange with Plekhanov and feeling grateful not to be the recipient of his meticuolous analysis, and he used your name by accident when the question was posed to Harleyman.

thank you wildcat that clears it up

[Harleyman]

According to "The Pianist" the Warsaw Jews weren't sent to camps in the east until sometime in 1942, almosr three years after Warsaw was occupied. I find it hard to believe that by then the average Jew would have not come to realize that they would be shown no mercy by the Germans. Scenes in the film show people lying in the ghetto streets dead from starvation, individuals being physically abused and in one scene Spilsman witnesses a whole family living across the street being arrested, an elderly member of the family in a wheelchair being tossed into the street from a balcony and then the rest of the family taken downstairs and shot.

[depoix]

How is it 'dissing' the resistance fighters simply to point out that they did not as shaz112 falsely claimed make "a hell of a contribution to the allies" they did all they could and made a contribution it just wasn't that big.

 

 

Why are you trying to pretend I don't know about what De Gaulle did to upset Churchill and Roosevelt. What do you thin I was reffering to when I said

 

"Much as I dislike De Gaulle for his actions when leading the 'free french' and later France it's simply not true to say he didn't fight the Nazis."

 

way back in post 84?

 

Why do you think I refferred to him as a "scumbag" in my previous post? The fact is though that contrary to your blatantly false claims he's a scumbag who fought the Germans.

plek you are at times like a spoiled child that keeps on screaming to get his own way ,my opinion of the man comes from personal expieriance by a man who fought in france , he won the croix de guerre, for most of my life i heard him say how the french detested degaulle for leaving them to face the germans , he was of course elected president after the war ,mostly due to american and british influance, he had the cheek to demand that he led the victory parade in an open jeep through paris once the war in france was won ,how did he reward the hospitality and help of britain , he continued to say non when we were trying to enter the common market

 

the man who won the croix de guerre by the way was my uncle leonard harrison sadly now passed away

 

now back on topic

[spindrift]

According to "The Pianist" the Warsaw Jews weren't sent to camps in the east until sometime in 1942, almosr three years after Warsaw was occupied. I find it hard to believe that by then the average Jew would have not come to realize that they would be shown no mercy by the Germans. Scenes in the film show people lying in the ghetto streets dead from starvation, individuals being physically abused and in one scene Spilsman witnesses a whole family living across the street being arrested, an elderly member of the family in a wheelchair being tossed into the street from a balcony and then the rest of the family taken downstairs and shot.

 

Many tried to escape. Some found it hard to comprehend the madness imposed upon them. Many jews were bemused, like the Frank Finlay character in the film, he played Spilman's father, Maureen Lipman was the mum. The father respected the Germans as a cultured race. A people who could not possibly descend to the madness of the holocaust. Nobody really knew what was happening, and any Jew living in Warsaw had had a pretty horrible time long before 1942!

[Wildcat]

It might also be worth mentioning amongst the french resistance were Germans like Otto Kühne, and around 60,000 Spanish anti-fascist refugees from the Spanish Civil war fighting against the Nazis in France as part of the resistance.

[Harleyman]

Many tried to escape. Some found it hard to comprehend the madness imposed upon them. Many jews were bemused, like the Frank Finlay character in the film, he played Spilman's father, Maureen Lipman was the mum. The father respected the Germans as a cultured race. A people who could not possibly descend to the madness of the holocaust. Nobody really knew what was happening, and any Jew living in Warsaw had had a pretty horrible time long before 1942!

 

But it was very clear that the Jews were the object of Hitler's wrath even before the war. Those in Germany were already being abused, kicked out of universities, denied jobs, forbidden to marry Aryans, own businesses and those that did had their businesses vandalized and those who owned property having to hand it over to the state. Very clear to anyone that the descent to madness had already begun

[Plain Talker]

According to "The Pianist" the Warsaw Jews weren't sent to camps in the east until sometime in 1942, almosr three years after Warsaw was occupied. I find it hard to believe that by then the average Jew would have not come to realize that they would be shown no mercy by the Germans. Scenes in the film show people lying in the ghetto streets dead from starvation, individuals being physically abused and in one scene Spilsman witnesses a whole family living across the street being arrested, an elderly member of the family in a wheelchair being tossed into the street from a balcony and then the rest of the family taken downstairs and shot.

 

The pianist is not a documentary, though, it is part fiction, isn't it?

 

I mean, the truth is, the Polish Jews were certainly all but incarcerated in the Warsaw Ghetto, and after pretty much starving, there, shipped out in vast numbers to the concentration camps to starve further, and be gassed in the ovens. but there will have been artistic license applied to the story,which doesn't follow canon of the actual events.

 

Maybe they did trust the Nazis at first, and came to realise, too late, about the final solution, planned for them.

[plekhanov]

plek you are at times like a spoiled child that keeps on screaming to get his own way ,my opinion of the man comes from personal expieriance by a man who fought in france , he won the croix de guerre, for most of my life i heard him say how the french detested degaulle for leaving them to face the germans , he was of course elected president after the war ,mostly due to american and british influance, he had the cheek to demand that he led the victory parade in an open jeep through paris once the war in france was won ,how did he reward the hospitality and help of britain , he continued to say non when we were trying to enter the common market

 

the man who won the croix de guerre by the way was my uncle leonard harrison sadly now passed away

 

now back on topic

Yeah they hate him so much Gaulism remains a significant political force in France and their Navies flagship is named after him as are a great many other things in France. And of course Britian and the US kept on making the French elect him President so he could withdraw France from NATO and keep on as you mention keep on refusing to let us join the EU

 

Your argument isn't even consistent within this single post never mind throughout the thread. Do you not see the contradiction between you simultaneously arguing that De Gaulle tried to take undue credit during the war and kept on saying 'non' to us but that he was only became president thanks to British and US pressure?

 

Just admit that you are wrong and that De Gaulle clearly fought the Germans, the fact that you don't like him doesn't magically change this nor does your personal dislike mean that he isn't a French national hero which he clearly is.

[Wildcat]

Here is the story of a Jew that cleaned SS boots to save his own life.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sobibor-survivor-i-polished-ss-boots-as-dying-people-screamed-1870221.html

 

I don't think anyone can fully understand what he must have gone through.

 

He bided his time until in 1943 he made his escape. He lived out the war scavenging in the woods.

[Harleyman]

The pianist is not a documentary, though, it is part fiction, isn't it?

I mean, the truth is, the Polish Jews were certainly all but incarcerated in the Warsaw Ghetto, and after pretty much starving, there, shipped out in vast numbers to the concentration camps to starve further, and be gassed in the ovens. but there will have been artistic license applied to the story,which doesn't follow canon of the actual events.

 

Maybe they did trust the Nazis at first, and came to realise, too late, about the final solution, planned for them.

 

It's neither documentary or part fiction as I understand. It's the personal experiences of Wladislaw Spilman, a Warsaw Jew and well known pianist who played on Warsaw radio prior to the invasion. He managed to survive and lived to an old age. The other characters were also real, even the German officer who discovered his hiding place yet saved his life by bringing him food when he had almost starved to death.