Drone attacks..

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure the article seems to have forgotten these drones aren't autonomous, they are controlled from the ground i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RQ-9_Predator_B

 

They're not some special type of attack, they're just remotely controlled.

 

I don't understand why the OP thinks they're different to any other sort of military weapon?

[Bruce_Shark]

...I don't understand why the OP thinks they're different to any other sort of military weapon?

 

The OP possibly does understand this, but phrased the post to elicit a response from those not quite as savvy...

 

...and given HeadingNorth's responses, it worked!

[sharrowman]

@Entwhistle

"People get killed in war, they always have. Civilians get killed in war, they always have. It is a fact of war. Just regard Drones as being a more technologically advanced version of suicide bombs. Suicide bombs kill many more civilians than Drones. "

 

We are not at war in Pakistan or in the Yemen. Anybody killed cannot be legally described as an enemy combatant, thus contravening international law. Something we might hypocritically cite in our favour in when promoting interventions in other countries?

 

Also, on what intelligence are targets being sourced and located? The same dubious intel used in our favourite WMD dossier?

 

Actual, reliable and objective counts of deaths caused by drones are impossible. There are no allied troops on the ground to do counts. local authorities might be seen as less than reliable. We cannot wholly rely on reports of dead militant leaders.

 

These are extra-judicial killings and as such illegal. I am failr sure that if teh yemeni govt sent agents (or drones) to the uk and began murdering UK civilians, we might have something to say about it?

 

@harleyman

"Drones necessary when Pakistan and Yemen are known hideouts for terrorists "

 

So far, terrorist who have made attacks on the UK have been UK nationals or radicalised in this country. I guess you do not advocate drone attacks on Dewsbury?

 

"Either drones or forced intervention from outside"

 

Drones are outside intervention.

 

@entwhistle

"Actually Drones can target individuals VERY precisely, suicide bombs cannot"

 

Did you read that in the UAV catalogue? Because these are essentially secret US missions we have no verifiable data to support that assumption.

 

@sandie

"Which orifface are you talking out of it speaks to me of verbal diarrhoea,

Do you not think that that the people our troops and even the Americas are fed up with the idiots who want to kill others in the name of Islam.

Grow up "

 

The orifice is Sheffield Forum. I am sure our troops are sick of people trying to kill them. I am sure rural pakistanis, or yemeni peasant farmers are sick of being bombed in the name of 'liberal intervention'.

 

@dePoix

"we use them as the time it takes them to actually get to a target is far far quicker"

 

We know why they are used depoix, they allow extra-judicial killings with greater facility and expedience

 

@bruceshark

"What about this one:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8489787.stm

 

Reportedly killed Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud...

 

...his predecessor Baitullah Mehsud was killed by a drone attack last year.

 

Random chance or clinical precision? "

 

Erm, precision I guess, if the reports can be assumed to be reliable. I am not questioning the accuracy of these attacks (though one reasonabely might) rather their morality and legality.

 

@sandie

"We have been there, messed it up end of story"

 

I'm glad you feel so relaxed brushing murderous atrocities under the carpet. The story is not over for me.

 

"If you feel so strong about how the way the people are bieng treated out there why are you not on a plane to go and help"

 

I don't need to be on a plane to express dissatisfaction. If soldiers can kill from teh comfort of Washington, why not me complaining from teh comfort of Sheffield, like drone resistance.

 

@probedb

"I don't understand why the OP thinks they're different to any other sort of military weapon? "

 

It is not that I think they are so much different rather that tehy appear to be extr-judicial killings and thus illegal. They are secretive and thus un-accountable, another contravention of international law, no one knows how succesful or otherwise they are.

 

peep peep

[Guest]

 

It is not that I think they are so much different rather that tehy appear to be extr-judicial killings and thus illegal. They are secretive and thus un-accountable, another contravention of international law, no one knows how succesful or otherwise they are.

 

peep peep

 

How are they any more secretive than any other attack? Are we informed when there's an air strike, when an Apache group attacks a set of targets? No we're not.

 

How is this different?

[sharrowman]

The fact that we know of any drone attacks is thanks to the tenacious candour of pakistani and yemeni journalists reporting in local and national papers in their home countries. These reports filtered through to international news agencies and slowly found their way to the pages of our newspapers and slots on our news shows.

 

There is no official reporting of drone attacks from the US. No official details of successes or failures. No official details of accuracy. This is differnet to details of an air strike in Iraq or Afghanistan or when an Apache group makes a strike in these countries.

 

The US is at publicly declared war with Afghanistan and in Iraq, it declares it's actions to anyone interested enough to find out. It does not send letters to every address in the world with details. But details are there if you want to see them (file a freedom of information request and ask, I did)

[Harleyman]

The fact that we know of any drone attacks is thanks to the tenacious candour of pakistani and yemeni journalists reporting in local and national papers in their home countries. These reports filtered through to international news agencies and slowly found their way to the pages of our newspapers and slots on our news shows.

 

There is no official reporting of drone attacks from the US. No official details of successes or failures. No official details of accuracy. This is differnet to details of an air strike in Iraq or Afghanistan or when an Apache group makes a strike in these countries.

 

The US is at publicly declared war with Afghanistan and in Iraq, it declares it's actions to anyone interested enough to find out. It does not send letters to every address in the world with details. But details are there if you want to see them (file a freedom of information request and ask, I did)

 

You stated that drone attacks are secretive. Of course they are, just like terrorist attacks. Did the underwear bomber loudly proclaim that he had explosives hidden in his jockey shorts before he boarded the Delta flight to Detroit?

 

This is war of a new kind. Countries such as Yemen who are either unwilling or unable to to eliminate terrorist training camps within their borders will have to live with drones. Far better than being invaded by outside forces

[sharrowman]

Because I cannot see any other valid strategic advantage to invasion in Iraq or Afghanistan I am beginning to believe that the US war machine trundles on because of vast cost-plus contracts doled out to the private corporate concerns supplying logistics functions, catering, field hospitals and the like. On top of these mundane services massive civil engineering contracts are on offer to whomever dares take them up. This is not profiteering FROM war, this is war FOR profiteering. Rockin'

 

Drone attacks are an obnoxious marketing strategy for US 'defence systems' sales.

[Entwhistle]

Because I cannot see any other valid strategic advantage to invasion in Iraq or Afghanistan I am beginning to believe that the US war machine trundles on because of vast cost-plus contracts doled out to the private corporate concerns supplying logistics functions, catering, field hospitals and the like. On top of these mundane services massive civil engineering contracts are on offer to whomever dares take them up. This is not profiteering FROM war, this is war FOR profiteering. Rockin'

 

Drone attacks are an obnoxious marketing strategy for US 'defence systems' sales.

 

WOW...I so love vivid imaginations.

[Phanerothyme]

Police drones are going to be pretty ubiquitous in a few years time I reckon.

[Harleyman]

Because I cannot see any other valid strategic advantage to invasion in Iraq or Afghanistan I am beginning to believe that the US war machine trundles on because of vast cost-plus contracts doled out to the private corporate concerns supplying logistics functions, catering, field hospitals and the like. On top of these mundane services massive civil engineering contracts are on offer to whomever dares take them up. This is not profiteering FROM war, this is war FOR profiteering. Rockin'

 

Drone attacks are an obnoxious marketing strategy for US 'defence systems' sales.

 

You're just spouting worn out old rhetoric. In it for the oil, war profiteering etc etc.

 

Drones are having some success in keeping the vermin hiding out in caves. Attack is the best form of defence against these people.

 

You're not an apologist for terrorists by any chance are you?