EbonyBranch Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 If the first god is evil, then who are christians to question it?? Eh? I don't understand the question. The early christians decided by fiat that Marcion was wrong and burnt all the Marcionite texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 JUST A THOUGHT!! Asuming that there is a god, would'nt his/her motives and sudsequent actions ultimately be to serve the "greater good"?.. if so, the ethics and moral values that define good and bad in the literal sense would'nt apply. What "greater good" is served by life on earth evolving through natural selection which as I have already pointed out effectively serves to maximise the amount suffering going on in the world? What "greater good" is served by advocating slavery, genocide and general murderous intolerance in your 'holy book'? What "greater good" is served by torturing people for all eternity simply for failing to massage your ego during their fleeting lives even if they were scrupulously moral? Could any human crime ever deserve eternal torture, least of all the "crime" of worshipping a different god/s or no god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Eh? I don't understand the question. The early christians decided by fiat that Marcion was wrong and burnt all the Marcionite texts. I was asking, What gave them the right to question their faith and challenge their god in the first place??. And by the way, i've never read the bible so don't think i'm trying to defend it.. i'm just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 I was asking, What gave them the right to question their faith and challenge their god in the first place??. And by the way, i've never read the bible so don't think i'm trying to defend it.. i'm just curious. I still don't understand what your question is, but I'm guessing you assume that all Christians have always believed roughly the same things. Biblical scholars and historians now know that there was a wide variety of interpretations of the meaning of the different stories that were circulating about Jesus for the first few centuries. Eventually, an orthodoxy was more or less agreed on, and beliefs that didn't match the new consensus were declared to be heretical. From the perspective of a devout Jew of the time Christianity was inherently heretical because it twisted the message of the Torah (Old Testament). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 What "greater good" is served by life on earth evolving through natural selection which as I have already pointed out effectively serves to maximise the amount suffering going on in the world? What "greater good" is served by advocating slavery, genocide and general murderous intolerance in your 'holy book'? What "greater good" is served by torturing people for all eternity simply for failing to massage your ego during their fleeting lives even if they were scrupulously moral? Could any human crime ever deserve eternal torture, least of all the "crime" of worshipping a different god/s or no god? I've no idea.. you tell me!!. I asked that question impartailly, just out of curiosity, i'm not a beleiver. However, on reading your response to my post regarding THE GREATER GOOD, i'd like to ask you something that I hope you will once again answer. When you're sat in the garden, and you see a spider wrapping up it's prey within it's web. With all the power that you possess as a human to prevent it.. what greater good does it serve to just sit and do nothing??.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I still don't understand what your question is, but I'm guessing you assume that all Christians have always believed roughly the same things. Biblical scholars and historians now know that there was a wide variety of interpretations of the meaning of the different stories that were circulating about Jesus for the first few centuries. Eventually, an orthodoxy was more or less agreed on, and beliefs that didn't match the new consensus were declared to be heretical. From the perspective of a devout Jew of the time Christianity was inherently heretical because it twisted the message of the Torah (Old Testament). Yes, thats what I was wanting to know.. I need to do more reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I've no idea.. you tell me!!. I asked that question impartailly, just out of curiosity, i'm not a beleiver. However, on reading your response to my post regarding THE GREATER GOOD, i'd like to ask you something that I hope you will once again answer. When you're sat in the garden, and you see a spider wrapping up it's prey within it's web. With all the power that you possess as a human to prevent it.. what greater good does it serve to just sit and do nothing??.. I know that if I save the fly or whatever that the spider will go hungry and may die as a result. I know that the prey itself can only live by denying other living things food or by actively killing and eating them. I know that to live in our world is to cause suffering. I also know that there is nothing I can do to stop this, an all powerful god however could stop all this suffering at any time and replace our pain filled ecosystem with a much nicer one. Furthermore I make no claim to be 'all loving' nor to have a particular love for things spiders prey upon. As such my failure to expend all my energy trying to stop spiders getting a meal in no way contradicts the claims I make about my own nature, or as far as I'm aware the claims others make about my nature. In contrast most monotheists such as Christians claim that their god is all powerful, all loving and has a particular concern for humans. Consequently the obvious lack of concern for humans evident in so many ways in which the world works, many of which are beyond human ability to solve, is a real problem for Christians and similar monotheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I've no idea.. you tell me!!. I asked that question impartailly, just out of curiosity, i'm not a beleiver. However, on reading your response to my post regarding THE GREATER GOOD, i'd like to ask you something that I hope you will once again answer. When you're sat in the garden, and you see a spider wrapping up it's prey within it's web. With all the power that you possess as a human to prevent it.. what greater good does it serve to just sit and do nothing??.. Your example may hold water when considering a deistic or pantheistic god, but it certainly doesn't against the god of the Bible/Qur'an which is the point of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Your example may hold water when considering a deistic or pantheistic god, but it certainly doesn't against the god of the Bible/Qur'an which is the point of the question. Why? his example only postulates one observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Why? his example only postulates one observer. Eh? Isn't it obvious? A deistic god does not interfere in human affairs through miracles etc., just as plekanov would not interfere in the life of the fly trapped in the web. Neither are concerned. Furthermore, plekanov does not require the fly to worship him. The god of the bible is the opposite of all those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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