Black Police Association

[DragonofAna]

So what?

I don't even care if there are only black members. Whilst we have freedom of association people can and do form whatever interest groups with whatever justifiable membership criteria they want.

 

The difference is the BNP is not an association or lobby group, it is a political party that stands people in elections to undertake the role of representative of their constituents regardless of colour or racial background. Something that someone with self declared racist views will be campaigning not to do, as is the case with the BNP.

 

If BNP members get voted in then surely they ARE representing the views of their constituents? You don't mean to say you think they win seats by being voted in by people who disagree with them and their policies?

[Wildcat]

If BNP members get voted in then surely they ARE representing the views of their constituents? You don't mean to say you think they win seats by being voted in by people who disagree with them and their policies?

 

What I am saying is that their job should they be elected is to represent and assist the constituents that turn up to their surgeries impartially, something it is doubtful anyone in the BNP would do, because of their advocacy of unequal access to public services for British citizens dependent on their race. In standing for Councillors or MPs they are standing for roles they do not want to properly carry out.

[DragonofAna]

Brits who move abroad invariably stay very British and have made their culture the pre eminent one in some cases-remember The British Raj? Australia/New Zealand?

 

I was making reference to posts made on whether the Falklands should be occupied by Brits and be classed as British which someone on this thread seemed very unhappy about. There is a link in that it is okay for people to come to Britain and settle here with their own culture but seems wrong for us to expect to be able to do the same. This is verging on anti-British sentiment in my opinion, and I have said on numerous occassions that it seems some are set on Britain losing everything it is to multiculturism.

 

How do you know are you a black police officer? I wouldn't lecture the members of the National Disabled Police Association about the need for a disabled police association.

 

If you cannot see a difference between using the terms Black and Disabled then you really do have the blinkers on. Disabled does not state race as being one of its main points - and is open to any who are disabled regardless of colour.

 

We have one for the same reason there exists a disabled police assoc, it isn't so blacks can take over the police force, it's because they're in a tiny minority within a large organisation and have a common interest that makes their affiliation beneficial to them. If they were in a overwhelming majority, as white officers are, it would be different because obviously the service is geared towards the needs of the majority and managed by them.

 

Yes - I really do not think anyone believes the disabled police assoc is intent on anything to do with race. It is generally for disabled. It's early - am I missing something?

 

That point has been made previously, white officers may not see the need to join, just because they can- doesn't mean they have to, apparently I could join the Women's Institute, but I dont see much for me there, so I won't, but I still understand the reasons for its existence.

 

What are you blethering on about? No-one said anything about anyone having to join anything. Does it not strike you as absurd for white police officers to join a black organisation? Just as it seems absurd for non-whites to want the freedom to join the BNP.

 

 

I totally agree, but there is no comparison between them and the BPA, since the BPA's objective is not for an all white police force.

 

It must definitely be late. Did you mean it is not their objective for an all black police force? Confusion reigns.

 

The point is - it is un-necessary. There is no point to it other than as an example of further eroding of unity. And when we have the Muslim Police Association (or have we already) then though that will be open to all, it seems unlikely that many devout christian police will join. Common sense really. Segregation - whichever way you look at it.

[DragonofAna]

What I am saying is that their job should they be elected is to represent and assist the constituents that turn up to their surgeries impartially, something it is doubtful anyone in the BNP would do, because of their advocacy of unequal access to public services for British citizens dependent on their race. In standing for Councillors or MPs they are standing for roles they do not want to properly carry out.

 

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think this is what really happens even now, and not just with the BNP.

[Mecky]

It always astounds me why people continually have to create organisations and cultures at the exclusions of others.

[Wildcat]

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think this is what really happens even now, and not just with the BNP.

 

I see evidence of it regularly. Indeed in my job I know people that regularly write responses to MPs questions raised on behalf of their constituents.

 

And for all his failings every time I have had need to write to my MP I have received a considered response.

[DragonofAna]

I see evidence of it regularly. Indeed in my job I know people that regularly write responses to MPs questions raised on behalf of their constituents.

 

And for all his failings every time I have had need to write to my MP I have received a considered response.

 

And I have seen evidence of the futility of such for some people. Simply because you only have experience of this working does not mean it always works. And you are assuming that a BNP elected mp would not represent what is best for a consituent who writes to him, assuming also that the said constituent will make it known that he is everything the bnp is against?

 

Lots of ifs and buts to base an argument on.

[Wildcat]

And I have seen evidence of the futility of such for some people. Simply because you only have experience of this working does not mean it always works. And you are assuming that a BNP elected mp would not represent what is best for a consituent who writes to him, assuming also that the said constituent will make it known that he is everything the bnp is against?

 

Lots of ifs and buts to base an argument on.

 

I am sure in many cases such approaches are futile, that is not the point. The point is that they are treated impartially. The evidence of MPs pursuing futile cases is evidence in support of what I am saying, not against it.

 

It seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to make when in the case of the BNP they explicitly stand for different levels of access to public services for people of different ethnicities and why we have as a minimum criteria for being a political party that they have a non-racist membership policy, such that someone like Mo Chaudry can join.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2862561/Asian-TV-millionaire-set-to-join-the-BNP.html

[SnailyBoy]

If you cannot see a difference between using the terms Black and Disabled then you really do have the blinkers on. Disabled does not state race as being one of its main points - and is open to any who are disabled regardless of colour.

 

It's called................Diversity

 

1.the state or fact of being diverse; difference; unlikeness.

2.variety; multiformity.

3.a point of difference.

[boyfriday]

I was making reference to posts made on whether the Falklands should be occupied by Brits and be classed as British which someone on this thread seemed very unhappy about.

Obviously I wasn't to know that.

There is a link in that it is okay for people to come to Britain and settle here with their own culture but seems wrong for us to expect to be able to do the same.

Have you ever lived or worked abroad DragonfAna? Most British people take their culture with them, set up expat associations and live how they want to. The previous examples I gave of India, Australia, and New Zealand are extreme, but illustrate that we don't have any reticence in establishing our own identity when working/living abroad.

This is verging on anti-British sentiment in my opinion, and I have said on numerous occassions that it seems some are set on Britain losing everything it is to multiculturism.

What is the connection between how the British behave abroad and multiculturism here? Do you view multiculturism as a bad thing and if so why? Do you believe the BPA is anti British? What aspects of British culture are being lost because of organisastions like the BPA?

 

 

If you cannot see a difference between using the terms Black and Disabled then you really do have the blinkers on. Disabled does not state race as being one of its main points - and is open to any who are disabled regardless of colour.

..and if you can't see the relevance of the analogy you must have your blinkers on.

 

Why does the mention of 'black' make you think in negative terms? There are a myriad of Irish, Scottish & Welsh associations in England, there's nothing sinister about them whatsover unless their aim is to be critical or dominate the host culture, which isn't the case with any of them, that also applies to the BPA.

 

You may also have missed that the BPA membership does not exclude people on the basis of their colour or race, but just like the disabled officers association I wouldnt want to join unless I was a member of the target group.

Yes - I really do not think anyone believes the disabled police assoc is intent on anything to do with race. It is generally for disabled. It's early - am I missing something?

Well if you believe there's no need for the an association of black police officers, why do you believe there's a need for a disabled one? Race/disability is only relevant to the reasons for the organisations establishment, the fact they're minorities within large organisations is a commonality between them.

What are you blethering on about?

Please try to resist the tempatation towards invective, I'm trying to have a grown up discussion with you.

No-one said anything about anyone having to join anything. Does it not strike you as absurd for white police officers to join a black organisation? Just as it seems absurd for non-whites to want the freedom to join the BNP.

Yes, it does, I said so many pages ago on this thread.

 

I also said there was no point in the BNP forbidding black members since none would want to join, it was there solely to appease the xenophobes within their ranks and frankly I believe it was wrong to force them to change.

 

The salient point is the BPA is not racially exclusive or charting a discriminatory agenda.

 

 

It must definitely be late. Did you mean it is not their objective for an all black police force? Confusion reigns.

Yes, that's right.

The point is - it is un-necessary. There is no point to it other than as an example of further eroding of unity. And when we have the Muslim Police Association (or have we already) then though that will be open to all, it seems unlikely that many devout christian police will join. Common sense really. Segregation - whichever way you look at it.

Segregation? How do you arrive at that conclusion? White officers work alongside black ones, the fact that the black ones might want to get together occassionally to discuss rice & peas and chicken or how they get their dreadlocks under their police helmets is purely incidental. Just as the disabled association get together to discuss the issues which are important to them, I don't know what they might be-but I wouldnt dream of telling them their reasons are irrelevant or unimportant.

 

If the BPA was championing separate divisions of police officers along racial lines then you might have a point.

 

Finally, I'd just like to say, I'd never heard of the BPA before it was introduced negatively on this forum, so I assume they've been quietly getting on with whatever they do without upsetting anybody.

 

It would appear however that there are some who seek out organisations like this for their own political purpose and to highlight a 'racist' agenda non white groups have which simply doesn't exist.