Black Police Association

[Wildcat]

Round and round and round we go. Are you telling me you believe that if an mp was, for instance, against fox hunting then they would represent someone who hunted foxes in the same way as someone against hunting? Poppycock. We are all affected by our views even when we may try to hide these views behind a facade of impartiality.

 

That is true on a superficial level, but only on a superficial level. I would not expect an MP to give a selective service when representing a constituent againsy injustices they faced regardless of their views. For example, if the constituent was a fox hunter or hunt saboteur that had been unfairly detained under anti-terror legislation I would expect the MP regardless of their views to be doing what they could to advise, support and represent the person as appropriate.

 

The BNP have not hidden the fact that they are a racist political party - though I hate to consider what they may have hidden in light of this. They do not expect people to vote for them with the idea that they will treat all as equal. That would just be silly. So the ones who are voted in are voted in on the understanding of their ideals, and as the voters know this then there is no problem.

 

There is a problem when a minority group is excluded from the democratic system by a representative refusing to do their job with respect to them. That is dicatatorship of the majority and strikes at the heart of the freedoms and liberties that a liberal democracy depends upon to operate.

 

You and many on here are so against the BNP you let your dislike cloud your willingness to listen to anyone whom you consider may have slightly similar views. Not all people on here who are against the mosques on every street corner view muslims as being inferior, or blacks, or chinese, or whatever. The BNP and UKIP are getting more and more support not from white supremacists but from people who are fed up with mass immigration and the fact that in the ever perpetuated myth of multiculturism we lose more and more of what it is to be British.

 

So argue all you want against the BNP. Water off a ducks back.

 

The point is that there is NO need for a BPA.

 

That is a joke.

 

When you were presented with evidence of the need for associations because of discrimination your response was:

 

Blah blah blah.

 

Had you read my post instead of dismissing it you would see that unlike other Police Officer associations the NBPA has a very good reason for existence. The Scarman and MacPherson reports that provided disturbing details of institutional racism within the police force. Racism that allowed injustices like the murder of Stephen Lawrence to go unpunished.

 

This is what you said blah, blah, blah too.

 

When it takes 17 years to begin to find out about the complicity of police officers in withholding and hiding evidence against scum like this, it is in everyone's interests that we have bodies that will ensure the implementation of the Scarman and MacPherson reports in to the undermining of the justice delivered by our police forces by a culture of institutional racism.

 

So when you say:

 

You and many on here are so against the BNP you let your dislike cloud your willingness to listen to anyone whom you consider may have slightly similar views.

 

you should get off your high horse and pay attention to what others are saying or you will look like a foolish hypocrite, with a chip on your shoulder and a deliberate and intentional blind spot to racist injustices.

[ricgem2002]

So what?

 

It says in the middle of the home page in big letters:

 

 

 

I don't even care if there are only black members. Whilst we have freedom of association people can and do form whatever interest groups with whatever justifiable membership criteria they want.

 

The difference is the BNP is not an association or lobby group, it is a political party that stands people in elections to undertake the role of representative of their constituents regardless of colour or racial background. Something that someone with self declared racist views will be campaigning not to do, as is the case with the BNP.

so you dismiss my thread showing you about it to be staffed by blacks then go on to say i dont even care if there are only black members (so whos been racist here ?)so what do you think of this quote then ( The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour.) would you please explain your logic about this

[Wildcat]

so you dismiss my thread showing you about it to be staffed by blacks then go on to say i dont even care if there are only black members

 

Whether or not people are members or not is a different issue. I dismissed your point on those grounds, because it doesn't address the issue of membership criteria.

 

As someone has already pointed out there are in fact white people on Liverpool's NBPA board, anyway.

 

When I say I don't care if there are or aren't white members of the NBPA, I do so on the basis that the NBPA is set up specifically to counter discrimination and with an objective of achieving equality. Just as women's only groups can be useful and empowering, this also applies to black only groups.

 

(so whos been racist here ?)

 

I don't know are you?

 

so what do you think of this quote then ( The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour.) would you please explain your logic about this

 

"Black" can be a state of mind I suppose. For example, someone who is mixed race, that looks white but has been brought up in a black culture may well identify themselves as black without having particularly black skin.

[DragonofAna]

That is true on a superficial level, but only on a superficial level. I would not expect an MP to give a selective service when representing a constituent againsy injustices they faced regardless of their views. For example, if the constituent was a fox hunter or hunt saboteur that had been unfairly detained under anti-terror legislation I would expect the MP regardless of their views to be doing what they could to advise, support and represent the person as appropriate.

 

Since when has what you expect ever counted for anything? I expect lots of things from people but it never happens. I expect judges to know the law and make judgment based upon it, but it does not happen all the time.

And I dare say that you reach out as far as you can for the most ludicrous analogy in order to prove your point when really the point just becomes lost.

 

 

There is a problem when a minority group is excluded from the democratic system by a representative refusing to do their job with respect to them. That is dicatatorship of the majority and strikes at the heart of the freedoms and liberties that a liberal democracy depends upon to operate.

 

The democratic system is changing all the time. It is not static. We see the failures of the main three parties in serving the people of this country so maybe its time for change - regardless of your extreme fears of sudden prejudice and the striking down of anyone who does not tow the line. You'll be out with your a frame next telling people the end is nigh. Governments can be brought down by the people just as they can be elected.

 

That is a joke.

 

When you were presented with evidence of the need for associations because of discrimination your response was:

 

Had you read my post instead of dismissing it you would see that unlike other Police Officer associations the NBPA has a very good reason for existence. The Scarman and MacPherson reports that provided disturbing details of institutional racism within the police force. Racism that allowed injustices like the murder of Stephen Lawrence to go unpunished.

 

Because your evidence is not conclusive. There are cases of ethnic officers abusing their status including a recent one on the news where a certain officer framed someone, among other things, because of money. It happens regardless of race - and no matter who abuses the law they should be brought to justice.

 

You should get off your high horse and pay attention to what others are saying or you will look like a foolish hypocrite, with a chip on your shoulder and a deliberate and intentional blind spot to racist injustices.

 

Yeah - and look who is in the reflection in the mirror. One may not be right, but that does not make the absolute opposite any more right.

[hitman2010]

If your white can you join this organisation?and if not then why not after all discrimination based on the color of your skin is against the law now isnt it?

[DragonofAna]

If your white can you join this organisation?and if not then why not after all discrimination based on the color of your skin is against the law now isnt it?

 

Apparently if you are white you can join the BPA.

[hitman2010]

Apparently if you are white you can join the BPA.

 

as it should be.

[DragonofAna]

as it should be.

 

And what happens when there are 200 white officers in the BPA and only 3 black officers? Does the title for the association still make sense?

[Wildcat]

Since when has what you expect ever counted for anything? I expect lots of things from people but it never happens. I expect judges to know the law and make judgment based upon it, but it does not happen all the time.

 

A bit like me expecting you to respond to my point rather than riffing on a word?

 

And I dare say that you reach out as far as you can for the most ludicrous analogy in order to prove your point when really the point just becomes lost.

 

 

I was responding to an example you chose, with an answer.

 

What analogy are you talking about?

 

The democratic system is changing all the time. It is not static. We see the failures of the main three parties in serving the people of this country so maybe its time for change - regardless of your extreme fears of sudden prejudice and the striking down of anyone who does not tow the line. You'll be out with your a frame next telling people the end is nigh. Governments can be brought down by the people just as they can be elected.

 

I have no problem with advocating some change in the main 3 parties.

 

You make it sound like I actually think the BNP stand any chance of getting anything more than a protest vote... If you read what I have consistently argued you will see that from the evidence available the BNP's suport is falling and rightly so they are a bunch of Nazis that shame anyone that associates themselves with them. So long as people understand their history and who they are they are no threat to anyone.

 

Because your evidence is not conclusive. There are cases of ethnic officers abusing their status including a recent one on the news where a certain officer framed someone, among other things, because of money. It happens regardless of race - and no matter who abuses the law they should be brought to justice.

 

The officer in question however was caught and is spending time in prison. A rather different story to the Stephen Lawrence case where the Police closed ranks prevented evidence from going to trial, treat witnesses as criminals and protected the perpetrators.

 

Yeah - and look who is in the reflection in the mirror. One may not be right, but that does not make the absolute opposite any more right.

 

If something like racism is wrong then the opposite ie the striving for equality is right. Indeed racism isn't wrong without first accepting people's equality before the law.

[hitman2010]

And what happens when there are 200 white officers in the BPA and only 3 black officers? Does the title for the association still make sense?

 

lol who knows:hihi: