Grandad.Malky Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Is the distinction between skilled, unskilled and professional vocations more useful? Is the line between skilled and unskilled any less blurred than the line between working class and middle class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 It's the people that earn just above thresholds for benefits that lose out most. Perhaps Labour's new slogan should be "A future fair for all - but slighty less fair if you earn too much". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 As part of the wider scale class is, in part, a social identity like any other. Some social identities are chosen, and some are just the views of others. Class these days, is divided up into I think about 8 main categories, and most people could place themselves in it [or be placed in it by others]. The difference with social class as an identity in today's society is that it needs more division, as the meaning of the word evolves [and as people want to disassociate being placed where they don't want to be]. Emily's post above is an example. She uses her and partners earnings to class herself. A more traditional approach was more based on education and job status. The 'wage' thing, in a way makes less sense. What if for example, doctors were paid 10k a year? Few people would describe them as working class. On the other side of the coin, another example could be some rich upper class snob , who dropped out as a school kid, and does bugger all all day, but inherited a vast inheritance.. they may describe themselves as upper class, as most likely someone who had just met them in Tosspot Towers would consider upon first meeting. I agree with the first sentence, it is a social identity. Consider some of the best paid footballers - is Wayne Rooney middle class? I suspect Gary Lineker would be put into the middle class. Perhaps the labels upper, middle and working class are completely outdated, although there are certainly divisions in society for all sorts of reasons. Wiki has the classifications that are used nowadays: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_Britain#National_Statistics_Socio_Economic_Classification_.282001.29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheethnico Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 yes working poor thats me and tax credits no real help unless you are a single parent and working and thats speaking from experience a good full wage and tax credits covered myfull rent, single persons council tax, free dentist and my glasses but then i had to fall in love dam cupid got married and then that was it for the credits roughly same money coming in but more council tax to pay prescriptions ect an extra mouth to feed then the the money gets tighter youre hours get cut or made redudant and you think well tax credits will help you out but they dont as they go by youre previous years earnings so in my current state i would be no worse off if me and my husband didnt work only if you quit youre job you not going to get any benefits for upto 12weeks as you would have made youreself jobless arrrgh the system works for some but not for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 The official definition of poverty is 60% or less of the median income. This site gives some good info. I seem to recall articles last year stating that half of all children classed as living in poverty lived in households where somebody was working, so the figures are pretty high. A lot simply don't want to 'tarnish' themselves with being a 'sponger from the state', and a lot of people don't realise that they would qualify for benefits in the first place. Many thanks for digging this out. Got some interesting information on there:thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discodown Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I know ... but it's just too complicated. Being self employed, I don't know how much I've drawn until I've done my end of year accounts, and now I'm getting the state pension as well. They'd probably tell I was out of time anyway after I'd done all the paperwork. I feel sorry for the elderly, I quail at the sight of some of these forms myself. No wonder thousands of people don't claim their dues. They know how much we're all getting, if they really wanted us all to have the extra, they'd work it out for us and send a form. Pardon my cynicism They do. When you get guaranteed pension credit its standard to send a form for housing and council tax benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 They do. When you get guaranteed pension credit its standard to send a form for housing and council tax benefitYou misunderstood me, I meant without you having to apply for anything. They know every damn thing about us anyway, they could just send you the money if you qualify Anyway this thread isn't about me, I apologise for taking it off topic. It's about whether we should have another working class in addition to the upper, middle and lower working class we already have. The working underclass. Which seems to me to be an oxymoron anyway, so I say NO!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discodown Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 You misunderstood me, I meant without you having to apply for anything. They know every damn thing about us anyway, they could just send you the money if you qualify Anyway this thread isn't about me, I apologise for taking it off topic. It's about whether we should have another working class in addition to the upper, middle and lower working class we already have. The working underclass. Which seems to me to be an oxymoron anyway, so I say NO!. To be fair we've been discussing on this thread how some people are too proud to accept benefits. Given that it might be construed as an insult by these people to just give them the benefit. Far better to give them the option and the information and forms. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 To be fair we've been discussing on this thread how some people are too proud to accept benefits. Given that it might be construed as an insult by these people to just give them the benefit. Far better to give them the option and the information and forms. Don't you think?No, I just said that. If people got these benefits automatically pride wouldn't come into it. No-one's too proud to take state pension or job seekers allowance, are they? I think most people either aren't aware they're entitled to anything. The vast majority. And some are just put off by the multipage forms asking for everything about them from the year dot. The people who are too 'proud' are in a tiny minority, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Just dug this information out about how much money goes unclaimed each year in the form of pensions, tax credits and benefits. It amounts to £16 billion http://www.freshbusinessthinking.com/news.php?CID=&NID=3387&Title=Charities+Challenge+Government+Over+%A316bn+Unclaimed+Benefits+ I had no idea it would be that much. It probably dwarves the money that is fiddled in fraudulent benefit claims each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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