An alternative to not voting or spoiling your ballot in a general election

[Stoatwobbler]

If anything PR has the opposite effect, because under a PR system you don't directly elect your representative.

 

That's another reason to oppose PR, it severs the direct link between the elected representitive and their constituents. If anything it makes politicians even more beholden to political parties over and above the voting public.

[esme]

That's another reason to oppose PR, it severs the direct link between the elected representitive and their constituents. If anything it makes politicians even more beholden to political parties over and above the voting public.

 

ok lets drop PR, I'm still in favour of recall though unless there's a better suggestion for making MP's accountable to the public rather than their party

 

and if anyone is waiting for me to get started on this, then don't, I know who I'm voting for, I don't need to make a protest

[Stoatwobbler]

ok lets drop PR, I'm still in favour of recall though unless there's a better suggestion for making MP's accountable to the public rather than their party

 

and if anyone is waiting for me to get started on this, then don't, I know who I'm voting for, I don't need to make a protest

 

38 Degrees are the best people to go to for campaigning for recall

 

http://38degrees.org.uk/page/s/recall#petition

 

I should also point out that I have written to 2 MP's on the subject. Bob Russell, Lib Dem MP for Colchester answered his correspondance promptly and was in favour. Then I relocated to North East Derbyshire, where we have Labour's Natasha Engel who was very slow in replying and is opposed to recall elections.

[esme]

good group, but it doesn't give disenfranchised voters a means of protest which was the main aim of the thread, I just came up with PR and recall as two possible demands they could make

 

I do seem to have spent rather a lot of time defending these viewpoints though

 

I think it's about time someone who is disenfranchised picked this up

[Stoatwobbler]

good group, but it doesn't give disenfranchised voters a means of protest which was the main aim of the thread, I just came up with PR and recall as two possible demands they could make

 

I do seem to have spent rather a lot of time defending these viewpoints though

 

I think it's about time someone who is disenfranchised picked this up

 

I would disagree with that assessment of 38 Degrees. The recall campaign involves not just the petition but also writing to MP's to lobby for it. Both are good means of making your voice heard.

 

I personally find groups such as 38 Degrees and Avaaz.org a better means of making my views known to the powers that be then political parties, with whom I am as disillusioned as the next man.

[esme]

great so there is another means of protest that can and will be heard

 

so there really isn't any excuse for abstaining or spoiling ballots and then telling everyone you are doing this as a protest, because it doesn't work and there are multiple ways you can protest that will

 

people can abstain or protest if they wish, I don't mind it's their decision just stop telling everyone it's a protest because it isn't

[plekhanov]

PR is THE big issue for the Lib Dem's. It's also supported by the Greens and many in the Labour party, all because they think it will help them grab more power for themselves. If you want PR then there's plenty of choice of party for you out there.

Except as has already been demonstrated Labour absolutely cannot be trusted on this issue, having broken promises about voting reform 3 times in a row now. The Greens have basically zero chance of returning an mp and sadly under fptp a vote for them is a vote wasted. In contrast in many constituencies the Lib Dems are in 1st of 2nd place and have a real chance of being elected.

 

It's a rubbish voting system,

A "rubbish voting system" which seems to work very well across the developed world.

 

as I'm sure you all noticed at the European Parliament elections. PR is where everybody gets what nobody actually voted for.

This makes no sense. In what way are you claiming that those returned by the Eurpean elections weren't voted for?

 

IMHO it will also do nothing whatsoever to make elected representitives more accountable. For that we need to look at policies such as recall elections and seperate elections for legislature and executive, NOT proportional representation.

So taking steps to try and reduce the massive number of safe seats wouldn't " make elected representitives [and parties] more accountable"?

 

At the moment huge areas of the country are more or less ignored by the big 2 parties as they know that they either always win or can't ever win there. They are only accountable to the swing constituencies which decide our elections. Under PR parties and representatives are accountable to the whole country.

 

Please do explain how recall elections would force an equivalent change.

 

If anything PR has the opposite effect, because under a PR system you don't directly elect your representative.

Not true, there are several variants of PR where representatives are directly elected.

[plekhanov]

That's another reason to oppose PR, it severs the direct link between the elected representitive and their constituents. If anything it makes politicians even more beholden to political parties over and above the voting public.

Not true. There are several variants of PR which still have constituencies returning representatives.

[Wildcat]

Not true. There are several variants of PR which still have constituencies returning representatives.

 

In all the PR systems I can think of you vote for a number of posts, thereby breaking the direct relationship a constituent has with their MP.

 

How can you run an election for one post under a proportional representation system? Such a system would not be PR.

 

You could use single transferable vote type system, but that isn't really PR.

[Wildcat]

fair enough, give me a better suggestion, or would recall be sufficient on it's own

 

if it makes it simpler then I'm all for it

 

.......

 

I am all for instant recall.

 

I gave a sketch of an alternative system before:

 

The only way to have a true democracy is to elect MPs by lottery, have them funded like jury service is and instantly recallable by a proportion of their constituency to defend their actions at a general meeting, if they misbehave or act in opposition to the wishes of their constituents. The outcome of that meeting a new lottery, if a simple majority vote for one.

 

I know it sounds odd. But in my opinion one of the problems we have is that whoever we vote for invariably it will be one of those odd and unusual people that actually want to be politicians.

 

If we want to be lead by people that are truly representative of the way the country thinks then surely rather than selecting the small and unusal group of people that want to do it, wouldn't it be better and safer not to elect people at all but to select them randomly and then just weed out the useless and untrustworthy by a system of recall?

 

It is a system that was and I think still is used fairly successfully by the Zapatista's decsion making bodies in Mexico.