RobWilson Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 In many ways, with Peak Oil already here [LINK] we should be planning for a more centralized, car free environment. But that won't happen until it's way, way too late. Whilst fossil fuels are now scarce, they're not the only fuel option for cars. Did you see this press release from Sheffield-based ITM Power last week? Hydrogen is now cheaper than Diesel in the UK! I personally think that in 15-20 years' time it'll be busier on the roads than ever, but at least we won't all be being killed by diesel pollutants. Sheffield will be an even nicer place to live without all that smog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawny1970 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Quote: Originally Posted by Vague_Boy In many ways, with Peak Oil already here [ LINK] we should be planning for a more centralized, car free environment. But that won't happen until it's way, way too late. Whilst fossil fuels are now scarce, they're not the only fuel option for cars. Did you see this press release from Sheffield-based ITM Power last week? Hydrogen is now cheaper than Diesel in the UK! I personally think that in 15-20 years' time it'll be busier on the roads than ever, but at least we won't all be being killed by diesel pollutants. Sheffield will be an even nicer place to live without all that smog. people have a right to personal transport, given the options and costs, petrol/diesil are the ONLY choices, if there was a cleaner option at same costs, a lot of oeople would use it, but i see scc aiding green cars....NOT Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Whilst fossil fuels are now scarce, they're not the only fuel option for cars. Did you see this press release from Sheffield-based ITM Power last week? Hydrogen is now cheaper than Diesel in the UK! I personally think that in 15-20 years' time it'll be busier on the roads than ever, but at least we won't all be being killed by diesel pollutants. Sheffield will be an even nicer place to live without all that smog. Known fossil fuel reserves are at their highest level ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWilson Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 People have a right to personal transport. Given the options and costs, petrol/diesel are the ONLY choices. If there was a cleaner option at [the] same costs, a lot of people would use it. I [can] see SCC aiding green cars....NOT You missed the point. The cost of fuel for a hydrogen-engine car is less than the cost of fuel for a diesel/petrol car TODAY. Given that the econimics are now in favour of hydrogen fuel cells we should start to see more and more hydrogen fuelled cars developed, and their prices fall. It's not going to happen any time soon, but it's a good bet that in 15 years' time there'll be way more green cars on the road. By that time, can you imagine the price of diesel? ---------- Post added 31-07-2013 at 20:12 ---------- Known fossil fuel reserves are at their highest level ever. Then why have petrol and diesel prices soared over the past decade? Do you think diesel prices will rise in line with your wages? Fossil fuels took millions of years to form, and we'll have used them up in in 500 years. I'd rather use the scarce resources for fertilisers and plastics rather than as fuel. Additionally, I wonder if anyone would buy a diesel car if they knew just how detrimental to everyone's health they are when compared to petrol cars. Anyway, my point is that cars are here to stay, whatever the fuel source. Sheffield's roads are here to stay!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larven Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Of course cars are here to stay as are roads. That doesn't mean it is desirable or appropriate for cars to invade every nook and cranny of our urban areas. Accommodating cars has had a devastating impact on our towns and cities, in many cases neighbourhoods have been cut to ribbons or city centres encircled by concrete collars, effectively separating them from adjoining districts leading to decline and a much poorer environment. Birmingham is an example of a city that has worked hard to repair the devastation and blight that the inner ring road wrought on the city centre. It is now thriving and teeming with people and activity after many areas have been pedestrianised and converted into nice public squares, whilst parts of the ring road have been covered over or lowered to allow pedestrians to cross on wide bridges at grade. Before they would have been forced to climb over narrow bridges or use deeply unpleasant and hostile underpasses below the road. You will never see cars return to Fargate or the Moor and it likely that further roads in the city centre will be pedestrianised in the future, Pinstone St being a prime example. This is to raise the quality of the environment in the city centre and allow lots of people to wander, shop, socialise, let their kids play freely or indulge in all manner of other human activities without having to constantly be on the lookout for a person in a large steel box coming through. I am not anti car and use one myself but those wanting all roads in the centre to be reopened for their own convenience will be sorely disappointed. It is not going to happen and expect cars to be increasingly confined to the periphery of the core city centre in future. Edited July 31, 2013 by larven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) You missed the point. The cost of fuel for a hydrogen-engine car is less than the cost of fuel for a diesel/petrol car TODAY. Given that the econimics are now in favour of hydrogen fuel cells we should start to see more and more hydrogen fuelled cars developed, and their prices fall. It's not going to happen any time soon, but it's a good bet that in 15 years' time there'll be way more green cars on the road. By that time, can you imagine the price of diesel? Hmm, and what do you think the price of hydrogen will be then? It's like LPG: as soon as lots of people start to use it, up go the taxes on it and up shoots the price. We'll still be in the same boat really. Edited August 1, 2013 by metalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Of course cars are here to stay as are roads. That doesn't mean it is desirable or appropriate for cars to invade every nook and cranny of our urban areas. Accommodating cars has had a devastating impact on our towns and cities, in many cases neighbourhoods have been cut to ribbons or city centres encircled by concrete collars, effectively separating them from adjoining districts leading to decline and a much poorer environment. Birmingham is an example of a city that has worked hard to repair the devastation and blight that the inner ring road wrought on the city centre. It is now thriving and teeming with people and activity now that many area have been pedestrianised and converted into nice public squares, whilst parts if the ring road have been covered over or lowered to allow pedestrians to cross on wide bridges at grade. Before they would have been forced to climb over narrow bridges or use deeply unpleasant and hostile underpasses below the road. You will never see cars return to Fargate or the Moor and it likely that further roads in the city centre will be pedestrianised in the future, Pinstone St being a prime example. This is to raise the quality of the environment in the city centre and allow lots of people to wander, shop, socialise, let their kids play freely or indulge in all manner of other human activities without having to constantly be on the lookout for a person in a large steel box coming through. I am not anti car and use one myself but those wanting all roads in the centre to be reopened for their own convenience will be sorely disappointed. It is not going to happen and expect cars to be increasingly confined to the periphery of the core city centre in future. Which is great. If we accept the city centre is now a public sector/residential /boozing zone, which it is. Ban cars from it entirely. We've t'internet and actually quite a lot more shopping areas with meadowhall, Hillsborough, C Peaks, eccy road/sharrow vale etc etc. Give the city centre over to the carless and let them enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larven Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Which is great. If we accept the city centre is now a public sector/residential /boozing zone, which it is. Ban cars from it entirely. We've t'internet and actually quite a lot more shopping areas with meadowhall, Hillsborough, C Peaks, eccy road/sharrow vale etc etc. Give the city centre over to the carless and let them enjoy it. There are now five times more people living in the city centre than there was 10 years ago, up from 3000 to approximately 16,000. This will only increase further as more students relocate from shared houses in the suburbs to large, purpose built developments in the centre. There will also be more private residential development in the centre and on the edge in places like Kelham Island. Beneath the headline grabbing failure of Sevenstone and over hyped complaints about parking charges, there is a quiet revolution going on that is very slowly helping to revitalise the centre. It has hit rock bottom throughout this recession but as the live in population continues to grow, the economic outlook improves and more developments get off the ground, crucially the Moor and something at the NRQ now Hammerson are out of the picture, then things can only get better. Edited July 31, 2013 by larven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I am not anti car and use one myself but those wanting all roads in the centre to be reopened for their own convenience will be sorely disappointed. It is not going to happen and expect cars to be increasingly confined to the periphery of the core city centre in future. And this is why the city center is dead and buried and will never recover.The Anti car policies implemented by sheffield council have killed the city centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mapleboy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 There are now five times more people living in the city centre than there was 10 years ago, up from 3000 to approximately 16,000. This will only increase further as more students relocate from shared houses in the suburbs to large, purpose built developments in the centre. There will also be more private residential development in the centre and on the edge in places like Kelham Island. Beneath the headline grabbing failure of Sevenstone and over hyped complaints about parking charges, there is a quiet revolution going on that is very slowly helping to revitalise the centre. It has hit rock bottom throughout this recession but as the live in population continues to grow, the economic outlook improves and more developments get off the ground, crucially the Moor and something at the NRQ now Hammerson are out of the picture, then things can only get better. Which means that the city centre is now like any other area of the city, with a mix of activities happening in it. So why SCC concentrate on it's development and tend to expend a mere fraction of their effort on developing other areas of the city is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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