999tigger Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Hammerson walked away because they don't believe that the project will be as profitable in their portfolio as others that they have worked on within the last 5 years. Agree. Also which projects offer a better return will vary from year to year. The loss of government funding is soemthing that really hurt the project. They have been allowed to walk away without penalty to them and all the 'risk' bourne of the project is actually still sat with the council. 1. I dont know what was paid or what wasnt. Thats up to the documents. 2. The risk will come when they are commited to develop. All they are sat on is some land which still has a value. This is actually exactly what happened with Meadowhall Meadowhall is different from a large development in the town centre. The land was cheap. The risk was rightly with private developers. London and stratford is different from Sheffield. London has a massive population, stratford is in a key area and they had £8,000m being spent on the Olympics. London is more busier, more affluent and busier. The recession did delay developments up and down the country and many property companies went bust as usually happens. I dont blame sebenstone for not going ahead when the future was very very uncertain. I will just agree to disagree with you on the rest. I doubt the council tax payers want sheffield to invest £400m of their money to build sevenstones. ---------- Post added 06-07-2014 at 11:56 ---------- Do you know how wiki works? Wiki doesn't tell the whole story like how SCC got their trousers taken down by Hammerson. They got on with enabling works, moved fire stations, emptied parades of shops etc etc etc all without Hammerson ever being contractually obliged to lay a brick. Yes thanks. Which part according to you is incorrect and why? All the preparatory work would have had to be done anyway. Do you think Hammersons would have proceeded with a £600m project (devised when economic propects were healthy)when we were entering an economic crisis and double dip recession that nobody knew what was on the other side? Hammersons are rightly interested in protecting their own interests and that means choosing the best projects in the current environment based on what was on the table and their own resources. Recessions have a funny way of crippling property companies because they suffer from cash flow as its harder for them to sell or let their properties, which means its harder to raise finance. When you also lose £12m of seed funding, then that has an effect as well. Fortunately the recession has now bottomed out after six years and SCC will have to find some new developers who think regenerating the area will offer enough for them to commit to. I fail to see why its so controversial. They didnt cause the recession. they didnt withdraw the seed funding. Edited July 6, 2014 by 999tigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scabbydog Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Agree. Also which projects offer a better return will vary from year to year. The loss of government funding is soemthing that really hurt the project. 1. I dont know what was paid or what wasnt. Thats up to the documents. 2. The risk will come when they are commited to develop. All they are sat on is some land which still has a value. Meadowhall is different from a large development in the town centre. The land was cheap. The risk was rightly with private developers. London and stratford is different from Sheffield. London has a massive population, stratford is in a key area and they had £8,000m being spent on the Olympics. London is more busier, more affluent and busier. The recession did delay developments up and down the country and many property companies went bust as usually happens. I dont blame sebenstone for not going ahead when the future was very very uncertain. I will just agree to disagree with you on the rest. I doubt the council tax payers want sheffield to invest £400m of their money to build sevenstones. ---------- Post added 06-07-2014 at 11:56 ---------- Yes thanks. Which part according to you is incorrect and why? All the preparatory work would have had to be done anyway. Do you think Hammersons would have proceeded with a £600m project (devised when economic propects were healthy)when we were entering an economic crisis and double dip recession that nobody knew what was on the other side? Hammersons are rightly interested in protecting their own interests and that means choosing the best projects in the current environment based on what was on the table and their own resources. Recessions have a funny way of crippling property companies because they suffer from cash flow as its harder for them to sell or let their properties, which means its harder to raise finance. When you also lose £12m of seed funding, then that has an effect as well. Fortunately the recession has now bottomed out after six years and SCC will have to find some new developers who think regenerating the area will offer enough for them to commit to. I fail to see why its so controversial. They didnt cause the recession. they didnt withdraw the seed funding. The recession ended years ago. It started and finished when the last government were in power. Nor does it seem to have stopped Hammersons investing in Leeds which is also somewhat smaller than London and rather further away from it than Sheffield. By the way. There was no double dip recession. It was just a single dip. I think the second dip was just wishful thinking on the part of a few members of Sheffield Forum. Edited July 6, 2014 by Scabbydog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 At any time they will have a number of projects they are working on, but they wont be able to fund them all. They go with the ones that offer the best returns. Leeds is economically more prosperous and has a larger economy than Sheffield. They decided to proceed witht that project. Their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptowngirl Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It's time you buccaneering entrepreneurs pulled your socks up then isn't it? Well that's the thing isn't it. I really wouldn't invest my money in Sheffield city centre. As folk like Hammerson's clearly thought the same it seems that I'm not alone. It's not my city. I don't intend to live here. There are places that offer far greater opportunities in the UK and around the world. So once I have my certificates you won't see me for dust. But all is not doom and gloom. Sheffield is a great place for students. I'm not sure that we contribute that much to the economy, but seeing as how you turned the city centre over to us it would be rude to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Or we went into a major recession. The developer put it on hold because economic prospects had changed, funding was withdrawn making it less attractive and the project never restarted. Just read the wiki or is the wiki wrong according to you? But didn't Hammersons continue with projects in other towns and cities? 2011 was pretty much smack bang in the middle of the recession but it didn't stop them acquiring Monument Mall in Newcastle, for example. There are plenty more listed on their website. http://www.hammerson.com/property/shopping-centres/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfall Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It seems that, the supporters of the council will do anything but blame SCC for the failure for, one of the largest cities in England, ending up as the only one without a modern retail facility in its city centre. Blame recession, blame the Government, blame Hammersons, blame the demographic, blame 'Sheffield not being like other cities'. The truth is, while the other major cities were pushing through their redevelopments in the early 2000's (Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle, Liverpool etc) - the numpties at the Town Hall were kicking their heels, and had no vision, motivation, or ability, to get things off the ground. Look at the fiascos SCC has caused with IKEA & Next, and the demise of the Airport & DVS - and ask yourself if you have confidence that SCC knows anything about business, or what's best for the City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 But didn't Hammersons continue with projects in other towns and cities? 2011 was pretty much smack bang in the middle of the recession but it didn't stop them acquiring Monument Mall in Newcastle, for example. There are plenty more listed on their website. http://www.hammerson.com/property/shopping-centres/ Its been said repeatedly, but one more time. A developer will be involved in a number of projects at any time. Depending on the individual circumstances of each project, then some may look more attractive than others in any given year. What might have been an attractive proposal in 2007 lost much of that attractiveness following the recession. They lost a £12m grant in 2010, which would have made the project significantly less attractive to get a return on for the required money theu would have had to invest,risk taken and potential for profit. Other projects became more attractive. I cant see the big deal in a developer choosing one project over another as events and circumstance can change things. You would have to look at the figures and been on the inside to know what really went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It seems that, the supporters of the council will do anything but blame SCC for the failure for, one of the largest cities in England, ending up as the only one without a modern retail facility in its city centre. Blame recession, blame the Government, blame Hammersons, blame the demographic, blame 'Sheffield not being like other cities'. The truth is, while the other major cities were pushing through their redevelopments in the early 2000's (Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle, Liverpool etc) - the numpties at the Town Hall were kicking their heels, and had no vision, motivation, or ability, to get things off the ground. Look at the fiascos SCC has caused with IKEA & Next, and the demise of the Airport & DVS - and ask yourself if you have confidence that SCC knows anything about business, or what's best for the City. Could you please tell me just who SCC is that you blame for everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It seems that, the supporters of the council will do anything but blame SCC for the failure for, one of the largest cities in England, ending up as the only one without a modern retail facility in its city centre. Blame recession, blame the Government, blame Hammersons, blame the demographic, blame 'Sheffield not being like other cities'. The truth is, while the other major cities were pushing through their redevelopments in the early 2000's (Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle, Liverpool etc) - the numpties at the Town Hall were kicking their heels, and had no vision, motivation, or ability, to get things off the ground. Look at the fiascos SCC has caused with IKEA & Next, and the demise of the Airport & DVS - and ask yourself if you have confidence that SCC knows anything about business, or what's best for the City. Well you could always get off your backside,stand for election and get a place on the Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It seems that, the supporters of the council will do anything but blame SCC for the failure for, one of the largest cities in England, ending up as the only one without a modern retail facility in its city centre. Blame recession, blame the Government, blame Hammersons, blame the demographic, blame 'Sheffield not being like other cities'. The truth is, while the other major cities were pushing through their redevelopments in the early 2000's (Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle, Liverpool etc) - the numpties at the Town Hall were kicking their heels, and had no vision, motivation, or ability, to get things off the ground. Look at the fiascos SCC has caused with IKEA & Next, and the demise of the Airport & DVS - and ask yourself if you have confidence that SCC knows anything about business, or what's best for the City.You are of course correct. Furthermore SCC are quite happy sat on their 6 figure salaries for them and their mates. No point in rocking the boat. Besides, if Sheffield gets more prosperous Sheffielders might start to wake up and get aspirational. Then they might stop voting for Sheffield's special brand of Labour! Disaster!!! No. Better to keep Sheffield a dump and keep feeding the message that it's everyone's fault other than SCC's so keep voting SCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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