Blackbeard Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 There are only a handful of developers that could single handedly take on a project this size. They all talk and SCC have given themselves a reputation amongst them...don't touch them with a barge pole. They don't know what they are doing so make unrealistic demands, nobody wants to make decisions so progress is slow. The latest consortium trying to drive things forward had to go public and criticise SCC before SCC made one of their familiar statements Along the lines of 'this project is back on track..watch this space'! I suspect once SCC repurchase all the land it will only slow things down further as they will have more say in whatever development may happen Who is this SCC you blame for everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil-minx92 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Who is this SCC you blame for everything? It be Sheffield City Council Blackbeard arrrggghhh. I don't blame them for everything though. Just the fact that Sheffield was about the only major city to see no major retail development in the city centre throughout the boom years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 It be Sheffield City Council Blackbeard arrrggghhh. I don't blame them for everything though. Just the fact that Sheffield was about the only major city to see no major retail development in the city centre throughout the boom years. But just who or what is Sheffield City Council? I think you are giving the council more powers than they have, no city, town or village can build any major retail development alone. All the council can do is to make sure the planning permissions are in place, buildings compulsory purchased and the services are in place, I think SCC did all that. What is required are developers with money and confidence that the shoppers will use their development and make them lots of money. If the developers think the chances of attracting retailers to use their development are low they will not risk their money and will go elsewhere and I think they did. Just looking around the city centre you will see where retailers think they can make money in this city, pound shops, secondhand shops, pawn brokers, betting shops, fast food outlets, cheap clothes, discount stores etc. it breaks my heart when I visit the city now. I am old enough to remember when the centre was full of quality stores starting with Cockaynes and Walsh's and finishing with the S&E Co-Op at the bottom of the Moor. Sadly the city gets what it needs, not what wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Spot on. Have a look around this forum alone, its where's the cheapest this and rip off that and does anyone know where to get a free/cheap so and so. These are most likely the same people who bang on about "why does leeds get a Harvey Nichols and we don't" "...Why is our shopping centre not as good as theirs." Businesses will chose a location if they think there is enough demand for their product. I have said before on these threads, for all the protesting and whining, how many Sheffield people regularly would go and buy a £100+ t shirt, £50+ make up, £700+ suit or stop for lunch at £25.00 a head or pop in for an evening cocktail or glass of wine at £14.00+ per glass or £30+ a bottle each and every week. .....sorry, what's that? Rip off? Outrageous prices? Ah, that's why you aint gonna see any of the prestigious department stores near this city. This and exactly this! The same people who moan about a Harvey Nicks not being in Sheffield are the same people who think the reduced items in the Debenhams Blue Cross sale are too expensive and would rather cruise the aisles in TK Maxx looking at the seconds and last seasons stock. If I am off to buy a new suit for £500+ I don't get all uppity because I have to drive 40 minutes to Leeds or pay a few quid in parking as part of the deal, I just do it. These expensive premium stores can only exist where there is a suitable market for them and frankly Sheffield couldn't support them. Aye up Vera, I'll pop into t'pound bakery for me pastie while tha can look in t'99 p shop then we'll go in t'fancy shop an' get them new pans for £400 before gettin' us bus home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil-minx92 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) But just who or what is Sheffield City Council? I think you are giving the council more powers than they have, no city, town or village can build any major retail development alone. All the council can do is to make sure the planning permissions are in place, buildings compulsory purchased and the services are in place, I think SCC did all that. What is required are developers with money and confidence that the shoppers will use their development and make them lots of money. If the developers think the chances of attracting retailers to use their development are low they will not risk their money and will go elsewhere and I think they did. Just looking around the city centre you will see where retailers think they can make money in this city, pound shops, secondhand shops, pawn brokers, betting shops, fast food outlets, cheap clothes, discount stores etc. it breaks my heart when I visit the city now. I am old enough to remember when the centre was full of quality stores starting with Cockaynes and Walsh's and finishing with the S&E Co-Op at the bottom of the Moor. Sadly the city gets what it needs, not what wants. I agree with most of what you say, but SCC dithered around, they frustrated Hammerson, they spent a fortune and thousands of man hours without ever asking Hammerson to sign a contract to lay one brick. When it came to the complicated work of large scale development they proved themselves incompetent and judging from the remarks from the latest consortium trying to deal with them, nothing has changed. I don't blame the council officers. I blame the councillors and cabinet members who hold all the power and take (or don't take..keeping their heads beneath the parapet) the decisions despite having few qualifications or the experience to do so. Old school labour hardliners who's attitude was no doubt much like the type of character referred to in the posts just above. Hard line labour types that could bend over backwards if they were dealing with a Sheffield or at least Yorkshire or even a northern based development company but viewed Hammerson as southern Tory types trying to get one over on them, and so assuming they needed to counter every proposal. It took over 4 years from Hammerson being selected as developer to them battling their way to a position where they could submit the basic outline planning application in 2005. This delay was key to the failure of the project. Just to compare, Liverpool selected a developer for the larger Liverpool One project in 2000, the development agreement was signed in 2003, all planning permissions etc etc were sorted and construction began in 2004. Edited January 2, 2015 by lil-minx92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I agree with most of what you say, but SCC dithered around, they frustrated Hammerson, they spent a fortune and thousands of man hours without ever asking Hammerson to sign a contract to lay one brick. When it came to the complicated work of large scale development they proved themselves incompetent and judging from the remarks from the latest consortium trying to deal with them, nothing has changed. I don't blame the council officers. I blame the councillors and cabinet members who hold all the power and take (or don't take..keeping their heads beneath the parapet) the decisions despite having few qualifications or the experience to do so. Old school labour hardliners who's attitude was no doubt much like the type of character referred to in the posts just above. Hard line labour types that could bend over backwards if they were dealing with a Sheffield or at least Yorkshire or even a northern based development company but viewed Hammerson as southern Tory types trying to get one over on them, and so assuming they needed to counter every proposal. It took over 4 years from Hammerson being selected as developer to them battling their way to a position where they could submit the basic outline planning application in 2005. This delay was key to the failure of the project. Just to compare, Liverpool selected a developer for the larger Liverpool One project in 2000, the development agreement was signed in 2003, all planning permissions etc etc were sorted and construction began in 2004. I ask you again just who is SCC? Your reference to "Hard line labour types" is a little misleading, while some of the blame, you claim, can be placed with them they were not in charge for most of the life of the project. Here is a quote from a post I made on the Retail Quarter thread. "You are right in some aspects, when planning was approved in 2006 Labour was in control of the council. By the time Hamersons revealed the name of the New Retail Quarter in 2007 no party was in overall control but by the time plans were firmed up in 2008 the liberals took control and remained in power until 2010 and Paul Scriven was still leader with no overall control until 2010. It was on his watch that things started to fall apart, it was also the time of the world’s financial meltdown but I don’t blame him for that. Another factor to put in to the story is, according to Wiki, “On 17 June 2010, the Coalition Government, just weeks after its formation, announced the suspension of £12 million of central funding toward the project.” The time line given by Wikipedia is: The Outline Planning Application was approved by the Council in August 2006. The Secretary of State confirmed by letters dated 25 September 2006 and 9 October 2006 that he did not wish to intervene, and that the decision as to whether to grant outline planning permission and the associated listed building consents would therefore remain with the Council. The Section 106 Agreement was completed in November 2006 and outline planning permission and associated listed building consents were issued that month. In October 2007, developers Hammerson unveiled the official marketing name for the New Retail Quarter as Sevenstone] The branding was welcomed by business and political leaders in Sheffield. In March 2008, a three-day public exhibition displayed the plans for Sevenstone in Sheffield City Centre. Local press described the reactions of Sheffield citizens to the plans as 'mixed'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ret...riginal_scheme " http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10806110&postcount=28 No matter who you vote for, the council always get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermaus Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 This and exactly this! The same people who moan about a Harvey Nicks not being in Sheffield are the same people who think the reduced items in the Debenhams Blue Cross sale are too expensive and would rather cruise the aisles in TK Maxx looking at the seconds and last seasons stock. If I am off to buy a new suit for £500+ I don't get all uppity because I have to drive 40 minutes to Leeds or pay a few quid in parking as part of the deal, I just do it. These expensive premium stores can only exist where there is a suitable market for them and frankly Sheffield couldn't support them. Aye up Vera, I'll pop into t'pound bakery for me pastie while tha can look in t'99 p shop then we'll go in t'fancy shop an' get them new pans for £400 before gettin' us bus home Tk maxx is a great store with designer brands. Its not seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil-minx92 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I ask you again just who is SCC? Your reference to "Hard line labour types" is a little misleading, while some of the blame, you claim, can be placed with them they were not in charge for most of the life of the project. Here is a quote from a post I made on the Retail Quarter thread. "You are right in some aspects, when planning was approved in 2006 Labour was in control of the council. By the time Hamersons revealed the name of the New Retail Quarter in 2007 no party was in overall control but by the time plans were firmed up in 2008 the liberals took control and remained in power until 2010 and Paul Scriven was still leader with no overall control until 2010. It was on his watch that things started to fall apart, it was also the time of the world’s financial meltdown but I don’t blame him for that. Another factor to put in to the story is, according to Wiki, “On 17 June 2010, the Coalition Government, just weeks after its formation, announced the suspension of £12 million of central funding toward the project.” The time line given by Wikipedia is: The Outline Planning Application was approved by the Council in August 2006. The Secretary of State confirmed by letters dated 25 September 2006 and 9 October 2006 that he did not wish to intervene, and that the decision as to whether to grant outline planning permission and the associated listed building consents would therefore remain with the Council. The Section 106 Agreement was completed in November 2006 and outline planning permission and associated listed building consents were issued that month. In October 2007, developers Hammerson unveiled the official marketing name for the New Retail Quarter as Sevenstone] The branding was welcomed by business and political leaders in Sheffield. In March 2008, a three-day public exhibition displayed the plans for Sevenstone in Sheffield City Centre. Local press described the reactions of Sheffield citizens to the plans as 'mixed'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ret...riginal_scheme " http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10806110&postcount=28 No matter who you vote for, the council always get in. The council was either Labour or Labour led between 2002 and 2007, and again from 2011 to present. And with Julie dore in charge- a woman who represents Sheffield turning up to Downing Street dressed like she was off walking the dog - Google Julie dore Downing Street - she's the one in a scruffy coat and trainers- I don't hold out much hope for the future Edited January 2, 2015 by lil-minx92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The council was either Labour or Labour led between 2002 and 2007, and again from 2011 to present. And with Julie dore in charge- a woman who represents Sheffield turning up to Downing Street dressed like she was off walking the dog - Google Julie dore Downing Street - she's the one in a scruffy coat and trainers- I don't hold out much hope for the future Ah , old Comrade Dore . If she put as much effort into running the council correctly than she does trying to get her face in the Star the city would be in much better shape. What hope has the city got when you look at Dore and her fellow comrades, Jackie boy Scott ( now fallen on his sword ,but sure to pop back up in another cushy council post soon ) and boy blunder Leigh Bramall . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The council was either Labour or Labour led between 2002 and 2007, and again from 2011 to present. And with Julie dore in charge- a woman who represents Sheffield turning up to Downing Street dressed like she was off walking the dog - Google Julie dore Downing Street - she's the one in a scruffy coat and trainers- I don't hold out much hope for the future Sorry but just what has this to do with Julie Dore, she did not take control of the council until 2011 when the project was dead? The time line was, as I have said before, look at the dates. "Hammerson submitted an Outline Planning Application in October 2005, seeking permission for a mixed use development consisting of refurbishment of use of existing buildings and erection of buildings for retail, housing, a night club, a health and fitness club, and multi-storey car parking. Amended planning applications were submitted in May and July 2006. Enabling works (that is, providing the gas, water, electrical and telephone infrastructure) began in March 2006 on the roads surrounding the new site, including Division Street, Moore Street, Charter Row and others. The Outline Planning Application was approved by the Council in August 2006. The Secretary of State confirmed by letters dated 25 September 2006 and 9 October 2006 that he did not wish to intervene, and that the decision as to whether to grant outline planning permission and the associated listed building consents would therefore remain with the Council. The Section 106 Agreement was completed in November 2006 and outline planning permission and associated listed building consents were issued that month. In October 2007, developers Hammerson unveiled the official marketing name for the New Retail Quarter as Sevenstone. The branding was welcomed by business and political leaders in Sheffield. In March 2008, a three-day public exhibition displayed the plans for Sevenstone in Sheffield City Centre. Local press described the reactions of Sheffield citizens to the plans as 'mixed'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Retail_Quarter If you must blame anyone, blame the world’s financial meltdown or the people in charge after planning permission was given not the person who took over when the project was dead. You could always blame the ordinary people of Sheffield who, possibly through no fault of their own, gave the developers the impression that they could not make money out of their shopping habits. Remember this is Sheffield where the favorite phrase is "How Much". OK, it was still your favorite boogieman, SCC, that was in charge no matter which party was in control. Remember, no matter who you vote for, the council always get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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