Planner1 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Is it speculation? So given the current economic climate and the councils current line of pleading poverty, you think the council would have the wherewithal to purchase the land at market value without borrowing in order to do so? If they terminate without buying back surely any new developer that comes along would have the unattractive hurdle of firstly dealing with hammerson. It's a non starter and I suspect both parties know that hence the councils willingness to wait and wait and wait I suspect the people of sheffield would be a little bit more understanding, if they didnt keep getting led up the garden path. ' Big bang will make sevenstone a reality' springs to mind The Council have reserves and can access monies to buy assets. They CPO'd the property in the first place don't forget. They don't have to buy the property immediately, they have a timescale specified in the contract. So, there is time to get another developer on board It is uninformed speculation. You clearly know nothing of the terms and conditions of the agreement, but you are prepared to speculate about having to buy back at inflated prices. Terminating the deal with Hammerson will lengthen to the project timescale, even if a replacement developer can be found quickly. Clearly the Council know this and therefore have been prepared to give Hammerson some leeway. Edited June 21, 2013 by Planner1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_p Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 There is giving them some leeway and being weak, with no plan. Setting meaningless deadlines which are never adhered to I would say is the latter. I suspect if the council had any idea about how to bring this forward or of the relationshiop they have with the developer, they would have understood that the developer was never likely to stick to any deadline Yes they have assets, but this would involve having to carry out an embarassing climbdown, which isn't going to happen is it. It would involve using the reserves to get themselves out an hole which they have partly created, while at the same time shutting libraries, sports centres etc Did the council in Bradford not try to take the land back from Westfield? Look what happened there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Terminating the deal with Hammerson will lengthen to the project timescale, even if a replacement developer can be found quickly. Clearly the Council know this and therefore have been prepared to give Hammerson some leeway. Seven years and counting of leeway. I can't wait for chapter two where Hammerson knock everything down and then leave it for another seven or so years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Seven years and counting of leeway. I can't wait for chapter two where Hammerson knock everything down and then leave it for another seven or so years. Remember there was a global recession, which caused them a lot of problems as a company. It's maybe the past 3 years when you might think they have been slow pedalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Remember there was a global recession, which caused them a lot of problems as a company. It's maybe the past 3 years when you might think they have been slow pedalling. We are looking at another Bradford here . The only difference being the bought up properties in sheffield havnt been demolished yet to leave a massive hole in the ground , instead sheffield has a massive area in the city center boarded up and derelict. Its an embarrassment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Shoes Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Remember there was a global recession, which caused them a lot of problems as a company. It's maybe the past 3 years when you might think they have been slow pedalling. I dont think that you can use that statement as a defense for Hammerson as they are investing billions in other cities and have been for years. I think that compared to other cities Sheffield city centre isnt really doing that bad. In the current climate properties do become available but are usually filled pretty quickly. The Moor is really starting to take shape and it will be a major task to fill those properties which there will be many. Perhaps this is the reason why Hammerson have maybe spat their dummy out of the pram that SCC gave the go ahead for a major project just round the corner. Sheffield already have most of the Major brands in Meadowhall & research has probably indicated that the brands do not feel there is the market in Sheffield for 2 stores. We also assume that other developer would jump at the chance to invest but the reality is that if a huge company like Hammerson cant make it work then other companies would be cautious to invest. So Hammerson may be our only option. The argument that starting the process again and putting it out to tender would delay the project further is total rubbish and insulting to us. Hammerson by their own admission state that the project would not start for at least another 2 years with completion in 2018. You could build a 60,000 stadium or a hospital in that time. I understand all these things. What is peeing me off is the way the council have handled the whole situation. Which has not given people like me any confidence to invest in my own city and to look to invest elsewhere. The council & anyone with some intelligence know that a labour council will be here after the next election. So whats the rush. Edited June 21, 2013 by Clown Shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I dont think that you can use that statement as a defense for Hammerson as they are investing billions in other cities and have been for years. I think that compared to other cities Sheffield city centre isnt really doing that bad. In the current climate properties do become available but are usually filled pretty quickly. The Moor is really starting to take shape and it will be a major task to fill those properties which there will be many. Perhaps this is the reason why Hammerson have maybe spat their dummy out of the pram that SCC gave the go ahead for a major project just round the corner. Sheffield already have most of the Major brands in Meadowhall & research has probably indicated that the brands do not feel there is the market in Sheffield for 2 stores. We also assume that other developer would jump at the chance to invest but the reality is that if a huge company like Hammerson cant make it work then other companies would be cautious to invest. So Hammerson may be our only option. The argument that starting the process again and putting it out to tender would delay the project further is total rubbish and insulting to us. Hammerson by their own admission state that the project would not start for at least another 2 years with completion in 2018. You could build a 60,000 stadium or a hospital in that time. I understand all these things. What is peeing me off is the way the council have handled the whole situation. Which has not given people like me any confidence to invest in my own city and to look to invest elsewhere. The council & anyone with some intelligence know that a labour council will be here after the next election. So whats the rush. I'm told that Hamerson have changed the type of developement they like to work on and Sevensone doesn't really fit the profile anymore. Clearly in a recession, they will target investment in a location and sequence to maximise their profit. I have heard specualtion that Hammerson would probably see Sevenstone starting as the Leeds development winds down. Hammerson are never going to disclose why they are not pressing ahead on Sevenstone, so we will never really know. I'm told that the mobilisation time for Sevenstone would be in the order of 2 years ie start on site 2015 if the button was pressed now. I'm told that replacing Hammerson with another developer might add a year to that. Building a shopping centre in a city centre isn't like building a stadium in a green field. It takes longer, there are more constraints. Hammerson are after all a developer known for producing high quality developments, so it's natural that the Council would give them some leeway, but that's not without a limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_p Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 If Sevenstone doesn't fit the profile, they should do the right thing and walk away ASAP instead of holding the entire city centre (and even out of town developments) back. Lets face it the whole Next decision near meadowhall is all really about protecting this non existent project. They would rather develop anywhere other than here. As many others have pointed out, we are the 'I'll do it when I get round to it project'. They are the ones who decided to sign a further development agreement in 2011 and have let the CPO be implemented. By that time we were 3 years into the downturn. Surely when signing the agreement they must have known 1. Whether the scheme was viable 2. Whether it could be delivered in a reasonable timescale It is pretty clear to anyone that no timescale was ever put on them starting construction when signing the development agreement in 2011. My personal opinion, is that if this ever goes ahead we have no chance of a start until at least 2016 (after we have fallen light years behind most other cities who are looking at their second and third projects), with an open date of 2018 (which ties in with the comments made by Next officials in the meadowhall appeal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Q: has Sevenstone actually purchased any of the now-derelict premises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm told that the mobilisation time for Sevenstone would be in the order of 2 years ie start on site 2015 if the button was pressed now. I'm told that replacing Hammerson with another developer might add a year to that. Might add a year to what? "if we got another developer we could have potentially a years delay to what isn't going to happen at all with this one"? If you don't press the button, which you clearly have not, then hammerson would start this two years after they decide at some potential point in the furutre if at all, vs with these guys it will be three years....no brainer. Sack hammerson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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