English Defence League Demo in Sheffield (30th May 2010)

[Wildcat]

Wrong. It was set up in response to Ahle Sunnah al Jamah – a splinter group from the banned extremist group al-Muhajiroun. They lined the streets to call the returning (Alive) Anglian Troops "Murderers, Terrorists, Rapists and Child Killers"

 

And should we respect their freedom of speech? and do so without opposing them?

[wednesday1]

http://englishdefenceleague.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=122&Itemid=28

 

"The EDL was formed on the 27th of June, 2009 due to frustration at the lack of any significant action by the British Government against extremist Muslim preachers and organisations such as Islam4UK, Hizb ut Tahrir, the Islamic Forum of Europe, the Muslim Council of Britain - the list goes on."

 

I think you're both right. Now perhaps I am being pedantic.

 

 

Muppets all of 'em!

[TheTwirler]

the thing is (they are allegedlly against and protesting against EXTREMIST islam)

 

BUT

 

all the photos of their protests ive seen have had banners saying things like "no mosques" which to me means they dont like islam at all

 

Quite right, I agree that the EDL are probably anti-Islam, and not anti-extremeism. Thats not what I'm arguing against though. The general start to the thread was bundles of people saying that the EDL are all sorts of different stereotypes and not nice names. I work with a few Unitedites who go to EDL marches and while I don't agree with their viewpoint I can say that they are all reasonably educated, certainly not violent thugs - probably just mis-guided. However, when you see the Left (see start of thread, saw with my own eyes) "kicking off" and acting the way they did that day in Nottingham, its very hard to defend the left.

 

All I want is for people to take a step back, realise that the EDL are still people and the object shouldn't be to tar them with the same brush and rubbish them, we should be trying to educate people and dispel common myths which cause anxiety. Thats the Liberal thing to do, not rubbish everyone as racist alcohol fuelled thugs. These people need to come into the real world.

 

Its the most hypocritial thread I've ever seen.

[Wildcat]

Islam for the uk should not have been banned becouse it is a breach of their freedom of speech and neither should the EDL be banned.

 

I see the word fascists a lot on this site but fascism is the hatred of people of a different race or religion or the hatred of somebody else's politics and the way they think so does that not make all the people that hate the fascists a type of fascist themselves and if so should their right to freedom of speech be taken away from them.

 

No because that is not the definition of fascist. Fascism is the political ideology made infamous by people like Mussolini.

[TheTwirler]

And should we respect their freedom of speech? and do so without opposing them?

 

We should respect their freedom of speech. The fact that they had people arrested at the time suggests it wasn't a peaceful protest, and that IS NOT on.

 

But the way to reach out to them isn't to go charging around the country causing trouble, it needs re-education. If this doesn't work, bang them up as soon as they break the law. That goes for both sides.

 

We have a good justice system in the country and EVERYONE should obey the law. It really is that simple.

 

P.S. - as an edit - we should respect their opinion, however only if this opinion is within the boundaries of the law (above). As soon as they start to spout things which could incite racial hatred (as it seems they were from the newspaper reports) then they loose all right to freedom of speech. You can't hide behind freedom of speech to publicly encourage others to kill "non believers"

[melthebell]

Quite right, I agree that the EDL are probably anti-Islam, and not anti-extremeism. Thats not what I'm arguing against though. The general start to the thread was bundles of people saying that the EDL are all sorts of different stereotypes and not nice names. I work with a few Unitedites who go to EDL marches and while I don't agree with their viewpoint I can say that they are all reasonably educated, certainly not violent thugs - probably just mis-guided. However, when you see the Left (see start of thread, saw with my own eyes) "kicking off" and acting the way they did that day in Nottingham, its very hard to defend the left.

 

All I want is for people to take a step back, realise that the EDL are still people and the object shouldn't be to tar them with the same brush and rubbish them, we should be trying to educate people and dispel common myths which cause anxiety. Thats the Liberal thing to do, not rubbish everyone as racist alcohol fuelled thugs. These people need to come into the real world.

 

Its the most hypocritial thread I've ever seen.

 

but they ARE a group formed from various footy hooligans generally purely as a backlash against ISLAM

 

unlike the bnp etc who ARE a general mish mash of all sorts of people

[TheTwirler]

but they ARE a group formed from various footy hooligans generally purely as a backlash against ISLAM

 

unlike the bnp etc who ARE a general mish mash of all sorts of people

 

And? Are Football Hooligans not allowed an opinion? How do you know they are all Football Hooligans? Your arguing with the wrong person, I don't doubt as an organisation they are Anti-Islam, but are you now saying that everyone who turns up in Sheffield is going to be a member of a Football Hooligan Firm?!

 

That's ludicrous.

[Wildcat]

Quite right, I agree that the EDL are probably anti-Islam, and not anti-extremeism. Thats not what I'm arguing against though. The general start to the thread was bundles of people saying that the EDL are all sorts of different stereotypes and not nice names. I work with a few Unitedites who go to EDL marches and while I don't agree with their viewpoint I can say that they are all reasonably educated, certainly not violent thugs - probably just mis-guided. However, when you see the Left (see start of thread, saw with my own eyes) "kicking off" and acting the way they did that day in Nottingham, its very hard to defend the left.

 

All I want is for people to take a step back, realise that the EDL are still people and the object shouldn't be to tar them with the same brush and rubbish them, we should be trying to educate people and dispel common myths which cause anxiety. Thats the Liberal thing to do, not rubbish everyone as racist alcohol fuelled thugs. These people need to come into the real world.

 

Its the most hypocritial thread I've ever seen.

 

EDL BNP supporters may include people with genuine grievances. That is not the point. What matters is who is leading these groups and to what purpose.

 

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2010/03/nazi-protestors-are-definitely-edl.html

 

And what they do when they are together:

 

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/754435/Patriotic-EDL-exposed-as-racist-violent-thugs-English-Defence-League.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News

 

For people that are supposedly patriotic, they didn't have much respect for Westminster Abbey did they?

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/03/edl-yobs-urinate-on-westminster-abbey/

[Wildcat]

And? Are Football Hooligans not allowed an opinion? How do you know they are all Football Hooligans? Your arguing with the wrong person, I don't doubt as an organisation they are Anti-Islam, but are you now saying that everyone who turns up in Sheffield is going to be a member of a Football Hooligan Firm?!

 

That's ludicrous.

 

Seeing as they recruit through the Casuals network of football hooligan firms you would expect a large proportion to be. There are obvious exceptions, like the personal invites to the Nazis they want involved.

[Wildcat]

Is this march actually happening as I can't find anything about it on google? Apart from the OP there isn't any confirmation as far as I can see - I read through fairly fast so sorry if I missed it.

 

It says to be confirmed on their website.