TheTwirler Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I'm not arguing that there are some members of the fraternity that have very low moral standards and very misguided political views. They are undoubtedly idiots. My argument to you, and everyone else on the forum is, each march the EDL go on they get greater numbers of followers. This is a GROWING faction and is becoming more of a problem. A) Do you think the effective way to deal with them is to simply label them ALL idiotic racist thugs? B) Do you think the way to deal with them is to organize non-peaceful counter demonstrations which acts to flame the situation and undoubtedly fan the flames of violence? C) Do you think the way to deal with them is the lock up the genuine violent, hateful ones and try to reach out to the rest to genuinely educate them and change their views? Remember, if there are 2,000 prepared to take to the streets with relatively little publicity then there are probably hundreds of thousands in this country who genuinely do not understand Islam, are anxious about the issues surrounding it and are ignored as "racist" and "not tolerant". Burying it under the carpet and tarring them with the same brush (which is all you lot are doing) will not solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I'm not arguing that there are some members of the fraternity that have very low moral standards and very misguided political views. They are undoubtedly idiots. My argument to you, and everyone else on the forum is, each march the EDL go on they get greater numbers of followers. This is a GROWING faction and is becoming more of a problem. A) Do you think the effective way to deal with them is to simply label them ALL idiotic racist thugs? B) Do you think the way to deal with them is to organize non-peaceful counter demonstrations which acts to flame the situation and undoubtedly fan the flames of violence? C) Do you think the way to deal with them is the lock up the genuine violent, hateful ones and try to reach out to the rest to genuinely educate them and change their views? Remember, if there are 2,000 prepared to take to the streets with relatively little publicity then there are probably hundreds of thousands in this country who genuinely do not understand Islam, are anxious about the issues surrounding it and are ignored as "racist" and "not tolerant". Burying it under the carpet and tarring them with the same brush (which is all you lot are doing) will not solve the problem. i dont understand islam...im anti religious but all this feeling goes back to the **** bashing of the 70s and early 80s, which i wont abide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTwirler Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 i dont understand islam...im anti religious but all this feeling goes back to the **** bashing of the 70s and early 80s, which i wont abide But "Nazi bashing" is OK? You don't have to understand Islam, but if you were one of the MANY people who are anxious about some of the myths, truths, fallacies etc then my way would be to talk over your issues with Islam and try to educate you against joining the growing right wing faction and taking to the streets. Clearly I'm on my own, everyone else wants to carry on just calling you a racist and ignoring your views completely. Let you join the right, it doesn't matter, they are all idiots.. Yeah right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 But "Nazi bashing" is OK? You don't have to understand Islam, but if you were one of the MANY people who are anxious about some of the myths, truths, fallacies etc then my way would be to talk over your issues with Islam and try to educate you against joining the growing right wing faction and taking to the streets. why do you think i argue on EVERY anti islam thread on here? Its to tell people they arent the devil, theres normal people like you and me that happen to be muslims Do they listen? nope? do they want to? nope, are they all ignorant of islam? nope some WANT to hate them as well as education, aswell, in some cases violence IS the only answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTwirler Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Then in that case, you're happy that the Muslims who want to hate and don't want to listen, violence is the only answer against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathom Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 So, I'll be better off shopping in Barnsley on the 30th then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I'm not arguing that there are some members of the fraternity that have very low moral standards and very misguided political views. They are undoubtedly idiots. My argument to you, and everyone else on the forum is, each march the EDL go on they get greater numbers of followers. This is a GROWING faction and is becoming more of a problem. A) Do you think the effective way to deal with them is to simply label them ALL idiotic racist thugs? B) Do you think the way to deal with them is to organize non-peaceful counter demonstrations which acts to flame the situation and undoubtedly fan the flames of violence? C) Do you think the way to deal with them is the lock up the genuine violent, hateful ones and try to reach out to the rest to genuinely educate them and change their views? Remember, if there are 2,000 prepared to take to the streets with relatively little publicity then there are probably hundreds of thousands in this country who genuinely do not understand Islam, are anxious about the issues surrounding it and are ignored as "racist" and "not tolerant". Burying it under the carpet and tarring them with the same brush (which is all you lot are doing) will not solve the problem. Firstly it is not clear to me their numbers are significantly growing. But in relation to your questions. A) It is not about being effective or not, it is simply the obvious description of their motivations. B) No, the way to oppose them is peaceful demonstrations. The way racism was kicked out of London in the 80s was largely through events like the Nottinghill Carnival celebrating diversity and bringing communities together. C) yes. Who is burrying anything under the carpet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTwirler Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Firstly it is not clear to me their numbers are significantly growing. But in relation to your questions. A) It is not about being effective or not, it is simply the obvious description of their motivations. But they are not ALL racist. The ones I work with distrust White Muslims as much as Black ones. They are not thugs either. B) No, the way to oppose them is peaceful demonstrations. The way racism was kicked out of London in the 80s was largely through events like the Nottinghill Carnival celebrating diversity and bringing communities together. I saw the "Peaceful" demo in Nottingham. Believe me, when I wasn't able to get through the Lace Market to the Orange Tree pub to get to a Wedding Reception because of Horses having to charge into the crowds to disperse them, and the police offers being attacked, I remember thinking it was anything but. C) yes. This we agree on. So why isn't it happening? Who is burrying anything under the carpet? Everyone, by simply putting this, and other Demo's down to ignorance and racism. Brushing off social problems relating to our not harmonious multi-cultural society. The problems won't go away if we ignore them, you know. My bold above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 My bold above. A) so being Islamaphobes makes them non-racist? B) UAF were never in Lace Street. They had their rally in Market square and marched down Friar lane and went home. Whoever you saw was not UAF. It was EDL that was all over the City attacking police and fighting, there are reports of some muslims and anti fascists around, but they weren't part of the UAF demonstration or they would have been kettled in. Something I can't help wondering why the Police didn't do for EDL better, it was after all they who were the ones that came and attacked the UAF protest in Market Square. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8396994.stm http://jasonnparkinson.blogspot.com/2009/12/far-right-edl-clash-with-police.html C) What exactly are you expecting to be done that isn't? EDLs concern is to terrorise muslims and stop mosques being built. Being an atheist I too would rather religion wained and there wasn't a need to build places of worship. However,I also am aware of our traditions of freedom of speech and worship, traditions EDL have no sympathy for and not the only tradition they don't care about. Like our historic monuments (Nottingham Castle): http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2009/12/442959.jpg Like freedom of the press: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/04/fatwa-english-defence-league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishProud Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 You do all know that the march has been called off, there going round Bradford instead!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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