English Defence League Demo in Sheffield (30th May 2010)

[Neutral body]

To ban or otherwise prevent these organisations does not remove the views of its members. We are much better off having these groups out in the public domain where we can see what they are up to and supporting. To drive them underground takes them off the radar and permits them to act without being observed.

If like me you do not support their views just ignore them and turn your back if you come acros their march. I also do this if I come across the equally distasteful left wing groups.

[libertarian]

The NF had nearly a hundred in London alone.

 

A brief history lesson:

 

Really? While you are correct that the NF were at their (vocal) peak in the 70's they only had a few councillors and the majority appear to have been unelected defectee's from other parties (very few were directly elected, though it did happen). Your statement that "The NF had nearly a hundred in London alone" is absurd, though they did try. For example they put up several hundred candidates nationwide in the 1979 election.

 

Not one NF MP was elected (though it came close) and this in a period of extremist politics (a Communist MP was elected... and by that I mean an openly, non Labour one).

 

And that brings me to the Voltaire quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ... Yes I agree utterly... I kind of wish I didn't because I really hate extremists of both factions... "Why can't we all just get along together?" (Naive hope I know).

[mafya]

Except for Tinsley which I've only passed through occasionally, I'm around the other areas frequently and it's not my experience. But I have a feeling you're a little bit prejudiced and see what you want to see.

 

Also your comments about this so called demo, which may or may not ever happen, it sounds like you're rather looking forward to having a bit of a ruck with the EDL. So in my book that makes you and any other group that wants to fight and cause public disturbances and nuisance as bad as them.

 

It's apparent that whenever the UAF are in evidence, damage to property and general mayhem ensue. They may not intend that to happen, but it invariably does. And when all is said and done, like the EDL, who elected them to decide what does and doesn't happen on our streets?

 

I have actually lived in all the areas I have mentioned and my parents still live in Page Hall. What I am trying to say is that if the EDL marched through any of the areas I have mentioned than I know that the muslim youths in these areas who I know are not just going to sit back and let them march through spouting their vile chants. I know this is not the answer so why do the authorities let these marches go ahead? I have heard all the freedom of speech reasons etc etc..but where do we draw the line?

The government, whoever it ends up being needs to wake up and address the concerns of the public but the far right partys are not the answer.

If the EDL did get beat up I wouldn't lose no sleep over it but I don't agree with damage to property etc.

Nobody is electing nobody to decide what happens on our streets but for every action there is a reaction. The EDL will get the response they deserve because its getting to the point where innocent muslims like myself are getting sick of being vilified and looked at with suspicion due to the actions of extremists who use Islam to justify there actions.

[lonelylad5656]

I hope they march through a majority muslim population area like Page Hall, Darnall Tinsley or Nether Edge and see what response they get.

They only march through city centres because they know that cctv is all over the place.

The EDL stand for nothing, they are just a bunch of football hooligans looking for trouble without getting a football banning order!!

 

Many of the muslims in "majority muslim areas" are in groups or gangs equivalent or if not, more rascist and prejudice than the UDF. There is no smoke without fire... The attitude of many muslims in "majority muslim areas" towards non muslims is one of non muslims being inferior, of not being a "brother". This is the main cause of the rise in popularity of nationalist, rascist and fascist organisations, imo. It is hard to break the cycle but neither side is without their supremacists.

[Halibut]

Many of the muslims in "majority muslim areas" are in groups or gangs equivalent or if not, more rascist and prejudice than the UDF. There is no smoke without fire... The attitude of many muslims in "majority muslim areas" towards non muslims is one of non muslims being inferior, of not being a "brother". This is the main cause of the rise in popularity of nationalist, rascist and fascist organisations, imo. It is hard to break the cycle but neither side is without their supremacists.

 

There's no doubt that some Muslim youth are involved in gangs, but I think you overestimate the problem. There are also as you say, some who seem to have a dodgy attitude regarding non Muslims.

 

I disagree though that these factors are the main cause behind the current 'popularity' of far-right politics. Much of this is still driven by the chain of events set in motion by September 11th. Muslims are the new blacks.

[SchMilner]

How is standing silent whilst a racist group marches in opposition to people's basic rights protecting anyone's freedoms?

 

If you value freedom of speech and of protest you should exercise it.

 

Exercise it?....because i feel people have the right to say what they want, even if what they say i believe to be wrong, i should protest?

 

Yeah can see that happening....EDL on one side of the street....Anti Fascists on the other....me stood in the middle with a loud hailer shouting "hello i'm here to defend your rights as members of a developed society.....anyone like a cup of tea?":hihi:

 

Next you'll wanna take the vote away from people that you don't agree with.

 

Lets all fight Fascism with Fascism, see where that gets us.

[PC Brigade]

 

As for the EDL, I don't support their charter, aims or even views, but I support their right to protest, as long as it is conducted lawfully, responsibly, respectfully and without inciting violence.

 

In that case you should be well aware that every demonstration they have held has turned violent.

Their 'members' drink heavily before and during 'protests'.

They have been photgraphed and filmed making Nazi Salutes.

They have been filmed chanting BNP slogans (who they claim not to be associated with).

They have been filmed shouting racist abuse at members of the public and police.

They are largely made up football hooligan 'firms' (and as a result often fight amongst themselves!).

 

The EDL are NOT a legitimate political organisation - their protests are nothing more than attempts to incite violence and disharmony.

[Jonny5]

Sorry is that the EDL or the equally distasteful 'anti-fascist league' fascists?

EDL. Though I'm no fan of the 'anti-fascists' either:- self-important social outcasts living off mom & pop and/or the state.

 

That’s my generalising done for the week. NEXT!

[TheTwirler]

I feel like I'm one of a minority banging my head against a brick wall. As someone who is floating somewhat politically and looking to try to see where I fit, this is my view from the outside.

 

One side wants its children to grow up in a better society than the one they live in now - and perceive to be getting worse. They see the other as a threat to their existance with the cultural values they currently hold. They are not interested in tolerance, education, dialogue and intergration to move forward and dispel myths that surround them. They just want to take to the streets, frothing at the mouth and protest against the other group. It has some extremists and the demonstrations can often turn violent with damage to property, incidents with police lines which are damaging to its reputation as it loses all moral high ground.

 

 

The other side wants its children to grow up in a better society than the one they live in now - and perceive to be getting worse. They see the other as a threat to their existance with the cultural values they currently hold. They are not interested in tolerance, education, dialogue and intergration to move forward and dispel myths that surround them. They just want to take to the streets, frothing at the mouth and protest against the other group. It has some extremists and the demonstrations can often turn violent with damage to property, incidents with police lines which are damaging to its reputation as it loses all moral high ground.

 

 

 

But one side are generally seen to be the "bad" guys and the others "defenders of public opinion".

 

I think your both as bad as each other, the ANL are no better than the EDL. I also think many people underestimate the level of mis-understanding and anxiety that exists in this country when it comes to muslims and immigrants in general. We either have to educate the population and dispel myths so people can make an informed decision (after-all, we can't MAKE people like other cultures) or watch it manifest and the BNP exploit it to carry on with a non-integrated country, racist attacks, demonstrations, mistrust and a wasted existence for all involved!

[Wildcat]

Really? While you are correct that the NF were at their (vocal) peak in the 70's they only had a few councillors and the majority appear to have been unelected defectee's from other parties (very few were directly elected, though it did happen). Your statement that "The NF had nearly a hundred in London alone" is absurd, though they did try. For example they put up several hundred candidates nationwide in the 1979 election.

 

Not one NF MP was elected (though it came close) and this in a period of extremist politics (a Communist MP was elected... and by that I mean an openly, non Labour one).

 

And that brings me to the Voltaire quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ... Yes I agree utterly... I kind of wish I didn't because I really hate extremists of both factions... "Why can't we all just get along together?" (Naive hope I know).

 

I think I may have got confused between numbers standing and elected.

 

The reason people can't get on together is one of the groups intention is to incite violence against ethnic minorities.

 

Freedom of speech or protest does not extend to incitement.