Child forced to join in act of worship.

[danot]

Danot we are in agreement!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I have been saying for what seems a very long time now.

Having read your posts, I was given the impression that you believe the teacher acted within reason, given the circumstances; I don't agree with that. Iv'e nothing against religion being taught or hymns being sung in our schools, but if you believe that teachers are within their rights to demand that every child attending morning assembly MUST(not welcome to participate) must participate in the ritualistic hymn singing, we are far from being in agreement.

[redwhine]

Only my own life experiences but I should have said generally turn out for the best.

Didn't we both say we were finishing with this thread several pages ago ?

I feel that I am talking to you and Danot more than my wife !!!(are you male or female in case she gets jealous)

Which would make her most jealous?;)

[redwhine]

If you believe that belief in the tooth fairy, Santa, Jesus and so on is infantile, I would imagine that since you don't share those beliefs you would regard yourself as more mature?

I have no control over your imagination. You will have to decide for yourself whether or not that is what you imagine.

 

However, regardless of whether one regards them as either infantile or indeed appropriate terms to use in an adult discussion, your references to 'jeebus' and the 'babble' do not actually add any weight to any of your arguments.

Nor do they reduce the weight.

 

(...not that I know what you consider to be my arguments. I did ask, but you have failed to respond.)

 

Given that you must be aware that many religious folk hold their beliefs very dear, I wonder therefore, since they don't add any weight to any productive discussion (I doubt whether that popular scientist/atheist of the moment Mr Dawkins feels the need to refer to such terms to make his point), whether they are simply there to try and cause upset to certain posters?

I have no control over what you wonder about. As with your imagination, you must decide that for yourself.

 

One observation/question, though; Many non-religious folk hold their non-beliefs very dear. Do you think it's ok for the religious to tell them they will burn in hell for all eternity, or is that them trying to cause upset to certain posters?

 

If you are correct about

, perhaps he balances out one of the (very few) non-agressive theists.

 

I wonder how you would behave in a hypothetical situation where you had a child who believed in Santa?

 

Play along until such time (as usually happens)

they ask for the truth and then gently let them have the truth?

 

Or perhaps a different approach?

Again, I have no control over what you wonder.

[redwhine]

They sing hymns at football matches.

Like Hillsbro' last week?

 

Proof, indeed, that kowtowing to gawd is totally useless!

 

[redwhine]

Once again the teacher was asking the pupil to join in a group activity which they were not excused from being a participant.

If they did not wish to join in the teacher should have been informed beforehand.

Did the school notify them that their child would be expected to join in a non-curricular activity beforehand?

 

If not, how could they inform the school of their (or their child's) wishes in that regard.

[some guy]

What is our way of life? Should it be preserved and unchanging? Should we still beat children and send them up chimneys?

 

no, i'm just saying it's not fair that foreigners (not just those from countries with a "stan" on the end) overthrow our traditions, such as our christianity. i'm not christian myself, but i think we should have our own religion.

[Treatment]

I take it that this is what we used to call ''assembly'' is it ?

[redwhine]

no, i'm just saying it's not fair that foreigners (not just those from countries with a "stan" on the end) overthrow our traditions, such as our christianity. i'm not christian myself, but i think we should have our own religion.

(My bold/italicised/underlined.)

 

If you are not a christian, how can you talk about 'our' christianity?

[redwhine]

As a bit of related background, here, councillors are being treat like schoolkids.

 

"The National Secular Society last week launched its legal challenge against a local Council's practice of starting its meetings with prayers.

 

Following a complaint to the NSS from a councillor on Bideford Council in Devon, the NSS will seek a judicial review to consider whether including prayers as part of council meetings breaches the European Convention on Human Rights.

 

Keith Porteous Wood, Executive Director of the National Secular Society said: "The councillor and some colleagues object to being subjected to prayers, or having to leave the chamber while they are said. Elected Councillors of public bodies should not be put in such an uncomfortable and embarrassing position. The council's purpose is to provide local services, not church services.

 

"The councillor who complained to us tells us that he knows of other potential councillors who are put off becoming candidates because of this archaic practice. The practice is therefore interfering with operation of local democracy. There is a chronic shortage of candidates and unnecessary obstacles to new councillors should be discouraged."

 

"The NSS took advice from top city lawyers, Beachcroft, who believe that the practice is a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights, which not only guarantees freedom to manifest religion but also freedom from religion. The Society fully supports both aspects of this freedom – we support, for example, the freedom of street preachers to preach against homosexuality or anything else that does not directly threaten other people's safety.

 

"It is nonsense to claim that the rights of councillors to manifest their religion would be restricted if the judicial review is successful. Councillors can, like anyone else, go to church or pray at home whenever they wish, and indeed we do not have a problem with them praying separately before or after council meetings. But it is not appropriate in modern-day Britain for prayers to form an integral part of the council meeting. The majority of people in this country do not enter a church, expect perhaps for weddings and funerals, from one year's end to the next. It is also possible that some from other religions will not feel comfortable being expected to participate in Christian prayers.

 

"The argument that prayers have been held in councils for centuries is not in itself an argument for their retention. Many councils throughout the country manage perfectly well without prayers and council meetings should confine themselves strictly to council business, not to promoting religious beliefs.

 

"All we are doing is subjecting a common practice to legal scrutiny. How could anyone fairly object to that? Could it be that those so keen to object are doing so because they suspect our challenge is well-founded and is likely to prevail?

 

"We know of another council where the religious element takes ten minutes. In a nation that is rapidly changing, with many non-believers and non-Christians taking part in the democratic process, religion should be left to the individual conscience and not foisted onto people in contexts that are inappropriate."

 

The Daily Mail presented our action as further evidence that Christianity is being persecuted in this country. But Terry Sanderson, President of the NSS, said: "No-one has yet explained to my satisfaction why council meetings should involve praying in the first place. What relevance does it have to council business? And claims that this is a Christian country are no longer sustainable. We are a country of many beliefs and none. The fact that councils have had this 'tradition' in place for centuries does not mean that it is beyond question. There are many 'traditional practices' that have been abolished. We have to accept that society is changing and so must the way it is organised."

 

Mr Sanderson said: "In the great scheme of things, this may seem like a minor issue. But as secularists it is our aim to separate religion from politics. Council prayers are wrong in principle, and need to be challenged as a step on the road to a properly secular society. This may not be a popular campaign in some quarters, but, as they say, you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs."

 

The NSS has been collecting information on the number of councils that start their meetings with prayers. What is the position at your council?"

 

(From the latest NSS newsletter.)

[harvey19]

Having read your posts, I was given the impression that you believe the teacher acted within reason, given the circumstances; I don't agree with that. Iv'e nothing against religion being taught or hymns being sung in our schools, but if you believe that teachers are within their rights to demand that every child attending morning assembly MUST(not welcome to participate) must participate in the ritualistic hymn singing, we are far from being in agreement.

Once again you are ignoring relevant points.

As I said to Redwhine I am speaking to the 2 of you more than my wife, it has to stop!!!