Arguments about God, including the ignostic-Ockham

[Weazel2006]

Much to thinking such interesting theoretical possibilities of a concuring solution bound in large to modern feeling, but thus should negatively affect my inner monkey.

[Tipex]

I dont think anyone should argue about god, or even question his existence.

[Grahame]

There's more to the truth than just the facts. ~Author Unknown

[Weazel2006]

Further to my last post.....The god theory is in the same league as that of the big bang....we can make theories, try to prove them....We can come up with physics that even attempt to explain the big bang....go into multiverse territory, get rid of the idea of time, go as far back as we like and are still left with the same question.

 

Is there a god?......don't know......explain to me with fact how the big bang (if it even happened) began and i will happily start to move my mindset closer to accepting the possibility of a diety.

[Plain Talker]

Mockery, like atheism is often the result of poverty of wit and is a rust that corrodes all it touches. Look at Stalin and the others.

 

Christians don't usually mock, they are generally more respectful.

 

Christians are only human the same as everyone else but if we try to follow Jesus then we really should not judge.

 

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Matt 7:1)

 

Atheists don't have that restriction, it's a question of standards.

 

Oh, dear, dear, dear, have you heard yourself, Grahame?

[flamingjimmy]

Further to my last post.....The god theory is in the same league as that of the big bang....we can make theories, try to prove them....We can come up with physics that even attempt to explain the big bang....go into multiverse territory, get rid of the idea of time, go as far back as we like and are still left with the same question.

 

Is there a god?......don't know......explain to me with fact how the big bang (if it even happened) began and i will happily start to move my mindset closer to accepting the possibility of a diety.

 

The big bang did happen, there is mountains of evidence for this, I'll let you do your own research. We may not know what started the big bang or what was there before it (or even if there was a 'before the big bang'), but we do know that approximately 14 billion years ago it happened.

[Plain Talker]

;6119498']I think you'll find that the vast majority of non believers keep their beliefs to themselves and don't give a damn about religious belief...

 

I'm a believer, and I don't get my underwear in a twist about others' beleifs.

[Weazel2006]

The big bang did happen, there is mountains of evidence for this, I'll let you do your own research. We may not know what started the big bang or what was there before it (or even if there was a 'before the big bang'), but we do know that approximately 14 billion years ago it happened.

 

Fair enough, i will research that further.....Would god not have to exist within some medium.....or in some state however to make the things we see possible (maybe including a big bang).

 

Before i get another post about ignorance on the subject i have racked my brain for many years with the question of existance/creation/evolution and have only one conclusion so far...but am not willing to let it rest at just a simple explanation.

[Grahame]

Fair enough, i will research that further.....Would god not have to exist within some medium.....or in some state however to make the things we see possible (maybe including a big bang).

 

Before i get another post about ignorance on the subject i have racked my brain for many years with the question of existance/creation/evolution and have only one conclusion so far...but am not willing to let it rest at just a simple explanation.

 

This is from another forum I belong to.

 

Prime Mover: The earth and everything in the universe is in motion, therefore there must have been something to create the first motion. Since an object cannot be potentially and actually in motion at the same time, something cannot be the mover of itself. Something must have created the first motion.

 

Efficient Cause (uncaused first cause): Everything follows a cause and an effect. If we are an effect, which it makes sense that we are, their must have been a cause greater than ourselves, because the cause is always greater than the effect. Since as humans we cannot call ourselves into existence, there must have been something that always existed to create us.

 

Possibility/Necessity: Everything in nature has the possibility to exist and also to not exist. It is not possible for something to always exist, so at one time there could have been nothing in existence. However, if the previous reason is accepted, there must be something which does not follow the laws of nature, therefore it couldn't possibly not exist.

 

Graduation: Things follow a classification, for example something can be short, shorter, and the shortest, when grouped together. This should apply to the rest of things in nature. Therefore, there should be something which posses the greatest qualites of goodness, justice, etc.

 

Order: If we accpet that there is order to the universe and it is not complete chaos, then there must be something that created the order. Human beings did not create the order of the universe, so there must be something that instilled order, and because we don't have that ability, the thing that created the order must be more powerful than ourselves.

 

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/religion-philosophy/112452-ok-freaks-lets-see-your-proof-any-your-fantasy-gods-exist.html

[Weazel2006]

This is from another forum I belong to.

 

Prime Mover: The earth and everything in the universe is in motion, therefore there must have been something to create the first motion. Since an object cannot be potentially and actually in motion at the same time, something cannot be the mover of itself. Something must have created the first motion.

 

Efficient Cause (uncaused first cause): Everything follows a cause and an effect. If we are an effect, which it makes sense that we are, their must have been a cause greater than ourselves, because the cause is always greater than the effect. Since as humans we cannot call ourselves into existence, there must have been something that always existed to create us.

 

Possibility/Necessity: Everything in nature has the possibility to exist and also to not exist. It is not possible for something to always exist, so at one time there could have been nothing in existence. However, if the previous reason is accepted, there must be something which does not follow the laws of nature, therefore it couldn't possibly not exist.

 

Graduation: Things follow a classification, for example something can be short, shorter, and the shortest, when grouped together. This should apply to the rest of things in nature. Therefore, there should be something which posses the greatest qualites of goodness, justice, etc.

 

Order: If we accpet that there is order to the universe and it is not complete chaos, then there must be something that created the order. Human beings did not create the order of the universe, so there must be something that instilled order, and because we don't have that ability, the thing that created the order must be more powerful than ourselves.

 

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/religion-philosophy/112452-ok-freaks-lets-see-your-proof-any-your-fantasy-gods-exist.html

 

I can accept and understand the physics behind what is said here. If we talk of our universe and things traveling in space (newtonian physics) with the negligible to non existant gravity, without intervention from a field of gravity or some other effect your not going to stop.

 

This could then go all the way back to this big bang. Then there is the talk of anything that can or might exist can,does,will or has. The easiest assumption to make in light of human ignorance as to how the universe really work is that something better than us has complete command over this.

 

For a god to exist, and to be above all these things, would mean to exist, so he cannot exist and therefor does.

 

I have spent alot of time trying to find some way of bridging the scientific and religious divide and the closest i have ever gotten is the nothingness theory...or because nothingness indicated a something....i prefer non existance theory.