Arguments about God, including the ignostic-Ockham

[Vague_Boy]

;6113137']Yes' date=' this topic is worthwile.... [/quote']

 

About as worthwhile as all the other "do you believe in god", "what do atheists think" type of threads.

 

They're not quite as prolific as the interminable bus threads, but they're getting there.

[Grahame]

Now, supercilious supernaturalists of sophistry, like William Sahakian, use the shell game of misdirection when they accuse us of committing a logical fallacy in asking what made or design Him?. He does it by stating that we commit the one of multiple questions [ the loaded one of have you stopped beating your mate?], and some state that we commit the category mistake by comparing Him with the Universe.

No, they all beg the question and special plead for His being different to be in another category! They beg the question of His definition in the first place!:loopy:No one can define, postulate or use faith to instantiate Him!

Yes, we naturalists must ever insist that they overcome the ignostic challenge of defining Him with evidence and not to beg questions and such.We must ever keep them on their toes! They can be sippery!

Contrary to Alvin Plantinga, it is utterly important to make sense of His being disembodied as we have never come upon a mind not in a body. To aver that it is possible is to commit the argument from ignorance! Again, they are using misdirection; here they do it by their it must be or it may be of guesswork. Now, to speculate such there must be a factual hint as in the cast of the Metaverse.

Logic is the bane of theists.

 

 

Talking about logic. When I am sat at the table having my dinner and I look for the creator of the table I cannot see one.

 

Atheists would say there was no creator. That is how stupid they are.

[redwhine]

Talking about logic. When I am sat at the table having my dinner and I look for the creator of the table I cannot see one.

But you could visit the factory/workshop where it was made. Maybe even watch one being made.

 

Atheists would say there was no creator.

Atheists would say that they withhold belief in god/gods. There is no obligation on the part of atheists to concern themselves about where furniture comes from.

 

That is how stupid they are.

Non sequitur. (Seeing as how they would not say that in the first place.)

[Grahame]

But you could visit the factory/workshop where it was made. Maybe even watch one being made.

 

Atheists would say that they withhold belief in god/gods. There is no obligation on the part of atheists to concern themselves about where furniture comes from.

 

Non sequitur. (Seeing as how they would not say that in the first place.)

 

I doubt I could do that. My table goes back a long way, it is an heirloom. LIKE THE EARTH.

[ignostic]

If any one of you can find evidence that some kind of person can have a mind without a brain, please, please tell me! As some portions of my brain have defects that could harm my posting, then that reflects in my mind.

So, there is also no soul.

Ah, now I just realized why He has no body! He can't have one, because He cannot be outside the Universe and so He cannot exist to have a body and a brain!

Wow!

Oh, Grahame, Carneades answered that centuries ago! Next time.

Hey, friends and others!

[Grahame]

If any one of you can find evidence that some kind of person can have a mind without a brain, please, please tell me! As some portions of my brain have defects that could harm my posting, then that reflects in my mind.

So, there is also no soul.

Ah, now I just realized why He has no body! He can't have one, because He cannot be outside the Universe and so He cannot exist to have a body and a brain!

Wow!

Oh, Grahame, Carneades answered that centuries ago! Next time.

Hey, friends and others!

Truth requires a healthy body, a healthy mind and healthy thoughts. A diseased mind, body, and thoughts know not the truth.

 

[Grahame]

Let me guess; we need to consult a dusty old book to tell us which are which.

 

I used to come into contact with people who had Alzheimer's disease and even paranoia can cause us to think all sorts of strange things. Then there are those who are disillusioned and have a grudge against society who become twisted and bitter and think peculiar things when they dwell on past events. So in order to keep on the level and on a sound footing we need to be well balanced, have a healthy body and mind and the knowledge to discern truth from untruth. Then we need to rid ourselves of all preconceptions and get rid of that baggage most people carry around and unless you do that you will never know the truth.

[[Matt]]

;6168749']The universe could have existed in one form or another forever and something that is eternal need not have a first cause. Your first mistake is to assume there must have been a first cause.

 

Secondly if the universe did indeed have a first cause then that first cause need not have been a god. Your second mistake is to disregard the many other possibilities for a first cause including natural ones devoid of supernatural explanations.

 

Thirdly if that first cause was a god then that first cause need not be the god you believe in. Your third mistake is to assume the Christian god to be the creator when there's a pretty hefty list of gods to choose from which originate in religions devoid of any Christian concepts...

I would love to see you at least tackle these 3 points I raised in turn instead of ignoring them because it would be inconvenient for your beliefs... Pretty much every single time I've seen someone raise a good point you simply resort to either ignoring it completely and hoping it will go away, or you go on the offensive by throwing your toy out of your pram and calling us names...

[milquetoast1]

His forth mistake, having chosen the Christian god, is to assume that whilst everything needs a creator his god does not. Is there a creator of gods, a god's god? Is it gods all the way up, or indeed turtles all the way down?

[Karis]

What do witches have to do with poison? PEOPLE poison people all the time.

 

The label of Witch in these cases was almost certainly hysteria typical of the era.

 

The ignorance surrounding witchcraft is astonishing! Even in the 21st century.