Arguments about God, including the ignostic-Ockham

[Grahame]

;6560552']I would love to see you at least tackle these 3 points I raised in turn instead of ignoring them because it would be inconvenient for your beliefs... Pretty much every single time I've seen someone raise a good point you simply resort to either ignoring it completely and hoping it will go away' date=' or you go on the offensive by throwing your toy out of your pram and calling us names...[/quote']

 

I assume you are talking to me Matt?

 

One of the reasons I am a Christian is because the Bible is so true. If you are saying the earth has always existed, so does the Bible. You are familier with the opening of Genesis, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was without form and void."

 

The word "was" in the Hebrew is "hayah" which means "became."

 

People are saying there was a previous earth and verse 1 should really be translated "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth "became" without form and void."

 

That does it for me, and I leave the rest in the Lords hands, but I am sure science will eventually provide the answers and I am equally sure they will confirm scripture.

 

It just seem strange that people can accept the earth did not need to be created but they cannot accept the same about God.

[ignostic]

Grahame, yes, and Yahweh has a pathological character as the Tanakh illustrates profusely and Dawkins notes so well! And he made his grudges in advance-predestination.

Matt, and Milquetoast1 yes, indeed! And it is no triviality to pose what made and what designed Him as to declare as William Sahakian that we commit the fallacy of multiple questions - the loaded have you stopped beating your wife- and others claim we make the category mistake of equating Him with the Universe, it is they who beg the question and special plead to make Him as they describe Him and put Him into another category! And they beg the question, like Aquinas in asking what is its cause?

And Karis, Christians so delighted in burning witches at the pyre!

Faith-heads cannot define,postulate or use faith to instantiate His existence!

Thank y'all for commenting1 We have many permutations of the arguments for and against Him yet to discuss!

[Grahame]

Grahame, yes, and Yahweh has a pathological character as the Tanakh illustrates profusely and Dawkins notes so well! And he made his grudges in advance-predestination.

Matt, and Milquetoast1 yes, indeed! And it is no triviality to pose what made and what designed Him as to declare as William Sahakian that we commit the fallacy of multiple questions - the loaded have you stopped beating your wife- and others claim we make the category mistake of equating Him with the Universe, it is they who beg the question and special plead to make Him as they describe Him and put Him into another category! And they beg the question, like Aquinas in asking what is its cause?

And Karis, Christians so delighted in burning witches at the pyre!

Faith-heads cannot define,postulate or use faith to instantiate His existence!

Thank y'all for commenting1 We have many permutations of the arguments for and against Him yet to discuss!

 

Dawkins is wrong. He hasn't yet realised yet although it is as obvious as the nose on someone's face because it is all over the Bible, New Testament as well, that the Israelites were continually making sacrifice to idols (false gods) and because we haven't realised this we attribute everything to Jehovah, when in reality the Jews were projecting their own thoughts onto these graven images who according to the Israelites said to kill, but Jehovah said not to kill which is the sixth commandment.

 

There is the answer, it wasn't Jehovah, it was the idol worshipping people. The trouble is, Dawkins and other atheists are incorrectly blaming God, when really they should be blaming the people.

 

For the atheist who does not believe in God, to blame God for everything, makes the atheist look stupid.

 

[Cozmo]

Is there a prize for anyone who reads that junk all the way through?

I am not claiming it.

PS the op not Halibut.

lol lol lol lol lol!!!

[Cozmo]

I usually read through all the posts on a thread before posting mine, but Holy Cow, that opening gambit in the first post made me wish there was a God so I could pray to him to dam well shorten it and get to the point!

 

Heres an interesting one I read in a philosophy book......

 

If God is omnipotent, (ie has unlimited power, which is a characteristic that most monotheistic religions attribute to their deity)...could he make a rock that was so big that he couldnt lift it, if he could then he isnt all powerfull as he cant lift the rock. If he can make the rock that he can't lift, then again he cant be all powerful as he cant lift the rock! Either way there is something that God cannot do, therefore he cant be all powerful ie omnipotent.

 

Im not claiming that this disproves the non existence of God anymore than personal testimony or the Bible/Koran proves it, I just think its an interesting thing to wrap your head around.

 

God Bless Karl Marx

[redwhine]

I used to come into contact with people who had Alzheimer's disease and even paranoia can cause us to think all sorts of strange things.

Even as strange as virgin birth and dead people coming back to life? Surely not.

 

Then there are those who are disillusioned and have a grudge against society who become twisted and bitter and think peculiar things when they dwell on past events.

Like a ficticious worldwide flood? Surely not.

 

 

So in order to keep on the level and on a sound footing we need to be well balanced, have a healthy body and mind and the knowledge to discern truth from untruth.

I'll give you that one, but we probably disagree about what constitutes a healthy mind.

 

Then we need to rid ourselves of all preconceptions and get rid of that baggage most people carry around and unless you do that you will never know the truth.

I know. Some people even base their lives on an old book which was written by bronze age nomads for bronze age nomads. They really should get rid of that baggage.

[redwhine]

I assume you are talking to me Matt?

 

One of the reasons I am a Christian is because the Bible is so true.

...except that it's full of contradictions.

 

If you are saying the earth has always existed, so does the Bible.

Rubbish! Some of the stuff in it didn't happen till less than 2,000 years ago. Even creationists say the Earth is 6,000 years old.

 

You are familier with the opening of Genesis, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was without form and void."

 

The word "was" in the Hebrew is "hayah" which means "became."

 

People are saying there was a previous earth and verse 1 should really be translated "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth "became" without form and void."

 

That does it for me...

Some people are easily satisfied. Why believe that book over any other work of fiction?

 

...and I leave the rest in the Lords hands, but I am sure science will eventually provide the answers and I am equally sure they will confirm scripture.

 

It just seem strange that people can accept the earth did not need to be created but they cannot accept the same about God.

Non sequitur.

[s.hawkins]

everything exists including god

[Number Six]

One of the reasons I am a Christian is because the Bible is so true. If you are saying the earth has always existed, so does the Bible. You are familier with the opening of Genesis, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was without form and void."

 

If it has existed forever, it wouldn't require a moment of creation, or a creator, would it? If you claim that the earth has existed forever, then your 'timeline of forever' must begin at the moment the earth was created - ergo you must be claiming that 'god' and 'earth' came in to existence at exactly the same moment. Is this correct?

 

That does it for me, and I leave the rest in the Lords hands, but I am sure science will eventually provide the answers and I am equally sure they will confirm scripture.

 

It just seem strange that people can accept the earth did not need to be created but they cannot accept the same about God.

 

If you are 'sure' that science will agree with scripture (despite this not always being the case - take the value of π for example) can I ask how fairly you might view evidence that contradicts the bible, such as dinosaur fossils showing the earth to be much, much older than the bible says it is?

 

It seems a bit about face to use an ancient manuscript of uncertain origin as a means to validate the data from scientific experiments, rather than using observed data from scientific experiments to validate the old book, don't you think?

[Number Six]

everything exists including god

 

So the only green elephant exists and there is a set of green elephant twins?

 

Do they live in the same zoo as the spider so venomous that it's sweat kills all living things that come within 10 feet of it along with the birds that eat it?

 

Or is your statement 'everything exists' incorrect?