Grahame Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Yet if there was no religion, the issue would never have occurred. It wasn't a war about religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Do you really equate a person's trade with their faith? I cannot believe you really think they are comparable. I'm saying that people are independent with minds of their own, heaven help us if we were all alike and people will do their own thing, but going over to the other side so to speak isn't an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 I'm saying that people are independent with minds of their own, heaven help us if we were all alike. But you have already acknowledged other factors, eg sense of community, risk of being stigmatised or being seen as a traitor etc. The point is many people do not make an informed conscious decision to follow a particular faith. In many cases it is a result of their environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 But you have already acknowledged other factors, eg sense of community, risk of being stigmatised or being seen as a traitor etc. The point is many people do not make an informed conscious decision to follow a particular faith. In many cases it is a result of their environment. I'm not saying parental influence doesn't play a part, although equally many children rebel and go in the opposite direction their parents would like. Environment to me means bricks and mortar, tarmac roads, the cinama and the pub on the corner, but more important than inaminate objectes are the friends we make and I cannot see many people breaking with their friends and going over among people who they may not know, without the family connection, the roots, the sense of comradeship and family support, all of which means such a lot. None of which has anything to do with parents indoctrinating their children. It is more of a social and community thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 But you have already acknowledged other factors, eg sense of community, risk of being stigmatised or being seen as a traitor etc. The point is many people do not make an informed conscious decision to follow a particular faith. In many cases it is a result of their environment. If you are trying to say parents indoctrinate their children, then you have shot your own argument down in flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 If you are trying to say parents indoctrinate their children, then you have shot your own argument down in flames. No, this isn't some claim about indoctrination by parents. I'm saying that many people are influenced by their environment, one of which can be parental influence, but its not the only one. We have already mentioned others (eg the Catholic/Protestant divide in Northern Ireland). Society as a whole provides an influence (or several conflicting influences in the case of liberal western democracies). In addition there are the countries with state sponsored religions. People (not all people, but many people of faith - I am using "people" as a shorthand, to save me writing "some people of faith" on every occasion) develop their view of the Bible (or any other holy book) based on their environment during the times they have come into contact with these books. That is how they understand the Bible. I would estimate that very few people base their interpretation of the Bible solely on their own readings of the Bible. What they do is receive advice as to what this and that phrase means from someone they respect and trust, and this influences their view. Because of this, I believe that each Christian is not basing their faith on the Bible, but is in fact basing it on a particular interpretation of the Bible. Each interpretation is different, and each group thinks it is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthinus Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 ^^^ Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 No, this isn't some claim about indoctrination by parents. I'm saying that many people are influenced by their environment, one of which can be parental influence, but its not the only one. We have already mentioned others (eg the Catholic/Protestant divide in Northern Ireland). Society as a whole provides an influence (or several conflicting influences in the case of liberal western democracies). In addition there are the countries with state sponsored religions. People (not all people, but many people of faith - I am using "people" as a shorthand, to save me writing "some people of faith" on every occasion) develop their view of the Bible (or any other holy book) based on their environment during the times they have come into contact with these books. That is how they understand the Bible. I would estimate that very few people base their interpretation of the Bible solely on their own readings of the Bible. What they do is receive advice as to what this and that phrase means from someone they respect and trust, and this influences their view. Because of this, I believe that each Christian is not basing their faith on the Bible, but is in fact basing it on a particular interpretation of the Bible. Each interpretation is different, and each group thinks it is right. I think you are right and I agree with Truthinus who said "spot on." This is where we need to use our discernment. We need to compare scripture with scripture, we need to keep in mind the context, we need to weigh the evidence in the balances, we need to cast aside our prejudice and we need to be objective. It is not an easy task but it can be done, it is being done, and I am seeing this seeking out of the truth in some of the Christian forums but it is a painful and difficult task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1954 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Totally irrelevant my foot. People are thinking for themselves, people convert to other religions and PT is an example of that, and people even construct their own cults of which there are many examples. As for people following the religion of their parents you only have to read the forum to see that is not the case. I would suggest that more than 99% of Muslims had Muslim parents, more than 99% of Hindus had Hindu parents and more than 99% of Christians had Christian parents. You keep citing examples of the less than 1% who change religions to claim parental indoctrination does not exist. This is disingenuous to say the least and could probably be classed as dishonest because I believe you know the true position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I would suggest that more than 99% of Muslims had Muslim parents, more than 99% of Hindus had Hindu parents and more than 99% of Christians had Christian parents. You keep citing examples of the less than 1% who change religions to claim parental indoctrination does not exist. This is disingenuous to say the least and could probably be classed as dishonest because I believe you know the true position. If Muslims convert to Christianity (or any other religion) they can be killed. The figures don't tell the truth, and people do have a mind of their own John. Weren't you destined for the Catholic Church at one time but came out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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